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Matt S

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... but, ZZ isn't just (theoretically) faster because of the LL. F2L uses a similar number of moves, but is done using 3-gen algs and no rotations ... so should (in theory) be faster.
That theory completely ignores recognition, which is kind of important during the F2L. :p

Finding the three pieces needed to make the first part of the first F2L block is a tough recognition. Even though you can get started after finding only the corner plus one edge, it's still much more difficult than finding the first pair in CFOP, because of the dl and dr edges and the cross being more conducive to planning ahead during pre-inspection (with even xcross often viable). I think videos of fast ZZ cubers illustrate the issue. There's virtually always a distinct pause at the end of EOLine, and sometimes the cube is turned over to look at the D-face (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFJgouKo92M&feature=related).

The beauty of ZZ is that you could potentially save good time in the LL with a true one-look system that doesn't just shift work (and recognition) to the last F2L pair (ZBLL).

By the way, as someone who is learning ZZ for fun, I'd love to be wrong. :)

Wow, I'm off topic. Sorry.
 
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ThatGuy

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How many cases would there be if 2 LL edges are oriented and you want to permute and orient the remaining? Or how would I figure this out?
 

Cride5

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Finding the three pieces needed to make the first part of the first F2L block is a tough recognition.
This is indeed an important issue in ZZF2L, and something that you need to address if you're serious about ZZ. I've had quite a few comments from folks finding this an issue. I myself used to spend quite a bit of time looking at D and B .. you only need to ask Escher :eek:

I've since managed to stop myself from doing this, while still maintaining lookahead, but how?

Believe it or not, despite the hidden pieces, all the information you need is there, but you need to know what you're looking for to take advantage of it. If you don't believe me, then try doing a super slow ZZ solve. During EOLine, look for your first F2L pieces. Again, during F2L look for the next pieces while very slowly solving the current block. I guarantee that you will never fail to find something. If you do, then rewind back to the start of that block and try again. If you still don't see what you're looking for then message me with the case!

The reason you will see many ZZ solvers mess up lookahead from EOLine into F2L is really because they're unsure about their line plan and are looking for the line going into place, rather than looking for the next F2L pieces. It takes quite a bit of discipline to trust your EOLine plan and actively search for F2L pieces during EOLine exec.

Once you've built your first 1x2x2, there are a couple tricks which you need to keep in mind. Firstly (and quite importantly), you can often identify an edge using elimination. For example, if you've just solved the LH1x2x2, you're looking for the last LH edge. Well if UL is visible, then you can positively identify where your last LH edge is - anywhere on the cube. I quite often find edges like this.

The other thing to realise is that when building a 1x2x2 block, it doesn't matter too much if you don't see all 3 pieces. Either of the two edges the corner joins to is sufficient to start building the block. The trick is to be flexible and accept either of the two edges as a starting point. The moves used to start the build will often show you where the final edge is (or isn't) before you're done.

Finally, I generally think that looking at B/D sides during the solve is a bad idea. It ruins your ability to look at other things happening around the cube and interrupts the flow. I think it's much better to do R/L turns to find what you're looking for, rather than rotations. They're faster to execute than rotations, and reveal quite a lot.

Wow! That was a bit of an essay, but you touched on an important ZZ F2L issue, which is a common concern for people new to the method. I hope this helps..
 
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blakedacuber

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whats it like brand new?i think i'm going to get QJ:p
It'll be stiff when it's new but you'll just have to lube and work it in. I was fortunate enough to buy a super loose used one that is really good.

Odder said he used a QJ for the world record so it can't be that bad. :rolleyes:
im willing to break it in :D:p
is heavy duty silicone ok?
 

riffz

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How many cases would there be if 2 LL edges are oriented and you want to permute and orient the remaining? Or how would I figure this out?
permute and orient just the non oriented edges? try looking at ELL cases
I think he means permute all edges and orient the remaining unoriented ones. Just check how many ELL cases there are for 2 edges oriented.
 

Rayne

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Is there some program that you can use to show a view of the cube from an angle where you see 3 sides and color in pieces the way you want and draw arrows, etc.? I want to use it to make a document that shows how to solve the cube. Kind of like how PLL and OLL diagrams work but instead of seeing one face you see the whole cube. (well, 3 faces since its impossible to see all 6)
 
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