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Solvador Cubi

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Joined
May 4, 2016
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169
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Does it seem feasible to achieve fast times by using these steps?
Are the estimated move counts valid?
Am I missing anything?

4 EO
6 Three white corners in place on D, at least One oriented corner on U
10 L5C - Orient and Permute, but preserve EO (126? cases, 42 conjugated C*LL algs)
10 Permute E-Edges + Centers
15 Permute L8E

= 45 moves


thanks,
-= Solvador Cubi
 
Last edited:
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Does it seem feasible to achieve fast times by using these steps?
Are the estimated move counts valid?
Am I missing anything?

4 EO
6 3 white corners in place on D
10 L5C - Orient and Permute, but preserve EO (126? cases, 42 conjugated C*LL algs)
10 Permute E-Edges + Centers
15 Permute L8E

= 45 moves


thanks,
-= Solvador Cubi
L5C is 614 algs just saying.
 

Chris_Cube

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Jan 5, 2020
Messages
56
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Somewhere in Germany
4 EO
6 Three white corners in place on D
10 L5C - Orient and Permute, but preserve EO (126? cases, 42 conjugated C*LL algs)
10 Permute E-Edges + Centers
15 Permute L8E

= 45 moves


thanks,
-= Solvador Cubi
I had this idea also as a ZZ-Corners First hybrid. But instead of L5C I thought of:
1. EO
2. Corners of first and last layer + preserve EO
3. Inserting the Edges in Pairs or one at a time or more with algs which preserve EO
4. Permute the Midges
 

shadowslice e

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Does it seem feasible to achieve fast times by using these steps?
Are the estimated move counts valid?
Am I missing anything?

4 EO
6 Three white corners in place on D
10 L5C - Orient and Permute, but preserve EO (126? cases, 42 conjugated C*LL algs)
10 Permute E-Edges + Centers
15 Permute L8E

= 45 moves


thanks,
-= Solvador Cubi
I'm somewhat skeptical about your permute e-edges step. Are we meant to have them in the e-slice after eo? Because otherwise there's a lot more than 10 cases. At the same time, that'd make the average movecount for eo much higher than 4. I'd instinctively have a few questions regarding the ergonomics of the permute step too.

Lastly, I'd need to know what movegroups you're expecting for each of the steps.
 
Joined
Mar 16, 2020
Messages
51
Method Name : "Doesn't want to learn many algs!"

Concept. : I have a method that skips oll and replaces it with T Perm and Modified Y Perm! and brute force skipping pll. for solving the cube you need only 2!!! algorithms, I mean i think that this method is for lazy people that is --- (Um I mean energy efficient on their brain) that only wants to learn around than 2 algorithms. if you are someone who is serious about this method, replacing the skipping OLL part with VLS (Valk Last Slot) and the permutation of the last layer part with t perms (Or if you're serious use pll.)
How to do it :
I'll make a video on youtube, I'll upload link later.
I'm calling this method : (Doesn't want to learn many algs)
Average move count is maybe 100 - 150 for beginner, 80- Intermediate, serious - 50-60 for the 2 f2l and if you're using VLS if you don't know full VLS which is most people, influence and orient the Last layer edges when you're doing f2l I'll be showing bunch of case when influencing the VLS cases during f2l, and use Winter Variation of the Valk Last Slot.

Steps :
1. Line in the bottom layer kind of looks like the EO Line in ZZ (preserving 2 f2l slot in the top face when orienting and permuting second face)
2. Permuting and Orienting and putting the pieces correctly in left face / first face (left face or right face) Using M, M', U2, U' and U moves.
3. Doing f2l in a way that uses T Perm and Orients and Permutes the last face edges (Kind of like Old Pochmann and using buffer spots)
4. Orienting and permuting F2L corner and Last face edges using Y Perm.
(For parity, use Ub or Ua Perm.)
Parity : When doing edges, If having an odd number of incorrectly permuted or oriented edges or both, use Ub or Ua Perm as mentioned above.

This method is I think not similar and very different to other methods, its a blockbuilding, belt and layer by layer method at the same time
 
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Solvador Cubi

Member
Joined
May 4, 2016
Messages
169
Location
USA
I'm somewhat skeptical about your permute e-edges step. Are we meant to have them in the e-slice after eo? Because otherwise there's a lot more than 10 cases. At the same time, that'd make the average movecount for eo much higher than 4. I'd instinctively have a few questions regarding the ergonomics of the permute step too.

Lastly, I'd need to know what movegroups you're expecting for each of the steps.

Thanks for feedback,

Yes, I thought the "L5C - Orient and Permute" step could use the 42 algs for Conjugated CxLL.
( I edited the original post to note that one oriented corner is needed on U.

The numbers next to each line were estimating an average move count for that step, not the number of cases.

For the "Permute E-Edges + Centers" step...
They are not already in the E-Layer from EO
In my testing, I'm averaging 11.3 moves to permute them, so I'm guessing an actual speedsolver could get to 10 moves. :)
I don't love the ergonomics of this step because of E-Slice moves. It's intuitive, but with move sets like these:
L’ U’ M2 U L ... ... U D R E2 R' ... ... M’ U2 M’ D’ U’ R E2 R' ... ... L E2 L2 E2 L’


-= Solvador Cubi
 

ProStar

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Oct 27, 2019
Messages
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An uncolonized sector of the planet Mars
Method Name : "Doesn't want to learn many algs!"

Concept. : I have a method that skips oll and replaces it with T Perm and Modified Y Perm! and brute force skipping pll. for solving the cube you need only 2!!! algorithms, I mean i think that this method is for lazy people that is --- (Um I mean energy efficient on their brain) that only wants to learn around than 2 algorithms. if you are someone who is serious about this method, replacing the skipping OLL part with VLS (Valk Last Slot) and the permutation of the last layer part with t perms (Or if you're serious use pll.)
How to do it :
I'll make a video on youtube, I'll upload link later.
I'm calling this method : (Doesn't want to learn many algs)
Average move count is maybe 100 - 150 for beginner, 80- Intermediate, serious - 50-60 for the 2 f2l and if you're using VLS if you don't know full VLS which is most people, influence and orient the Last layer edges when you're doing f2l I'll be showing bunch of case when influencing the VLS cases during f2l, and use Winter Variation of the Valk Last Slot.

Steps :
1. Line in the bottom layer kind of looks like the EO Line in ZZ (preserving 2 f2l slot in the top face when orienting and permuting second face)
2. Permuting and Orienting and putting the pieces correctly in left face / first face (left face or right face) Using M, M', U2, U' and U moves.
3. Doing f2l in a way that uses T Perm and Orients and Permutes the last face edges (Kind of like Old Pochmann and using buffer spots)
4. Orienting and permuting F2L corner and Last face edges using Y Perm.
(For parity, use Ub or Ua Perm.)
Parity : When doing edges, If having an odd number of incorrectly permuted or oriented edges or both, use Ub or Ua Perm as mentioned above.

This method is I think not similar and very different to other methods, its a blockbuilding, belt and layer by layer method at the same time
If you're going for little algorithms and don't care about inefficiency, then just use this beginners method, which only uses sexy and lefty sexy(which can be learned wayyy easier than t & y perms):

Ok, idea for a different way of teaching beginners method:

Cross - Normal
Corners - Solve corners on bottom, use sexy move to insert
Middle edges - Line the edge up so it makes a bar with the center, then move it away from where it needs to go. Then do the alg(sexy move), then you can just do these three moves(do F' U' F) to insert it. You can make that part use only sexy and a little intuitive part. Use lefty sexy(L' U' L U) for the left side.
Orient Yellow Edges - Use F (sexy) F' and you're able to cycle through the 3 cases.
Permute Yellow Edges - take the pair out (R U R'), then the alg (sexy), then put the pair back in(R U' R'). You can repeat this until edges are permuted.
Orient Yellow Corners - Flip yellow on bottom, then use the alg(sexy) to orient the corners(normal beginners)
Permute Yellow Corners - With yellow on bottom, take a corner out (R U R'), do D moves so that the correct corner is above the two correct edges, then put the edge back in(R U' R'). Then repeat for all the corners. Then the cube is solved :)

So with this, you only need sexy move(R U R' U') and lefty sexy(L' U' L U) to solve the cube(with maybe a couple moves added/subtracted, like for yellow cross/corners or something).

(I learned from the Rubik's tutorial and basically did brute force 4lll for LL, so maybe this is the normal method lol)

Here's an example solve that gives comments on how you'd explain it. Be warned, it's over 180 HTM, has more lines then the reconstruction of Feliks' entire Ao5 WR, and has a stupid amount of U U' lol

Okay, I posted this a while ago(~1.25 months) as a way to simplify the beginner's method. After some toying with it(don't worry, I haven't devoted my entire life to this for the past month :p), I came up with a way to remove the intuitive part from the E layer edges



Here's what I got:

Middle edges - Line the edge up so it makes a bar with the center, then move it away from where it needs to go. Then do the the sexy move that affects the side where the piece needs to go(i.e: The piece needed to go to the left, so you did a U'(moving it to the right), then did the alg the affected the left side(lefty sexy) (because that's where the piece needs to go). Then rotate the cube towards where the piece needs to go(so if it needed to go to the left, do a y') and do the alg you didn't just use(so if you just did lefty sexy, then do normal sexy this time)

Everything else is the same way as before

But even this is for beginners, please just stop being lazy and learn 4lll(or CMLL, or whatever the step is for the beginner's version of your method). Plus if you want to make this method remotely decent, you have to learn more 300+ algorithms, so it's not event a low alg count method
 
Joined
Mar 16, 2020
Messages
51
I'm not making this as a speedsolving method just a really lazy and really intuitive method.
well this method actually teaches you about blockbuilding but you don't have to use it as a main method.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 16, 2020
Messages
51
or if you want the method to be efficient and you are serious, "Doing f2l in a way that uses T Perm and Orients and Permutes the last face edges (Kind of like Old Pochmann and using buffer spots)"
for the two f2l edges, first in one of the f2l edge just use T Perm, then also when you're doing that do the OLL algorithm that looks like that case when you're doing one of the f2l, example : you're inserting one of the edge of the F2L, then in the top face it looks like an OLL algorithm in this case a T Oll do the T Oll then do the edge of the last f2l and you got an oll skip or use 2 look oll, how to use 2 look oll = influence the last layer edges and make most of them or all of the LL edges oriented then you will get an edges oriented correctly case. then use PLL.

Since I know 2LLL let me experiment that on my method and influencing the OLL case during F2L.
Update: It's good. it's very easy to get color neutral with this method.
I've done my research, yay! this method is original!
 
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Etotheipi

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under your bed.
@Username: Username:
If your going to develop methods with the sole purpose of having a low alg count, just make it have no algs. You could just do Roux with sune and J perm if you want a speedish method with a low alg count. It's always great to have people designing methods, but if your method is designed to have a low alg count, unless it has none or is really easy for beginners to grasp, there isn't much point as so many methods can be adapted to have 2 algs or roundabouts.. Sorry. Although I would love to see some more algless methods, especially ones that don't even use comms, as even those are intuitive, they feel like algs to me for some reason. =P
 
Joined
Mar 16, 2020
Messages
51
atleast this method is original :) actually, you can use no commutator on this method regular F2L on the first F2L slot then influence LL edges when doing the last F2L slot. I've tried that and you can optimise the last step of this method so that you will have 2 look oll, I created some triggers to influence the LL Edges while doing F2L.
Update : There are a lot of algorithm to keep track of when doing the influencing the LL Edges step, I'm making a whole subset of them.

I want to propose this method, I might change the name.
any name suggestions?
Document for proposal : https://docs.google.com/document/d/186jhiDKbVxE8ykruVqK22mi2amJ3b-h02UvTu9IAleg/edit?usp=sharing

Improving F2L + Last layer Efficiency on Zuper Cuztomizable method : To improve the efficiency of the Zuper Cuztomizable method when doing the last step which is F2L + last layer use one of the 17 algorithm in 1 Look Line Last Layer https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/1_Look_Line_Last_Layer_(1LLLL)#1_Look_Line_Last_Layer_.281LLLL.29_17_algorithms_subset instead of influencing the last layer edges intuitively, just use one of the 17 algorithms.
and who says I expect to? anyway.

I took me 24.67 secs to solve with the method
 
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Joined
Mar 16, 2020
Messages
51
Improvement to the method : for the F2L + Last layer step of the method, influence the LL Edges in a specific way before doing F2L, then use 1LLLL (1 Look Line Last Layer) to orient and permute the last layer. that should make the method efficient enough to use it for speeds solving, it's 1 look last layer with only 17 algs.
And also who says I expect them to anyway.
Method's already created, I don't need a wiki page for credit.
 
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Joined
Mar 16, 2020
Messages
51
Anyone know how to influence a particular edge with two corners? before F2L i know some but anyone suggest some more algs? aka Edge orientation with 2 corner
down : ok.
 
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