# The New Method / Substep / Concept Idea Thread

#### Anthem

##### Member
Ok thanks, but could there be 2 or 4 look pbl to make sure there are less algs

#### Skewbed

##### Member
Ok thanks, but could there be 2 or 4 look pbl to make sure there are less algs
For 2 look PBL, you could do PLL+Parity, then rotate to the other side and do PLL.

What method would this be for? Domino reduction? Belt?

#### Anthem

##### Member
Basically you solve the first layer unpermuted an then the last layer with oll than pbl so somewhat like Ortega for 3x3

#### Skewbed

##### Member
Basically you solve the first layer unpermuted an then the last layer with oll than pbl so somewhat like Ortega for 3x3
In that case, to reduce the algs, you can solve the first layer into a valid PLL to not have parity.

CFOP is better though.

#### PapaSmurf

##### Member
Just look at SSC for the best way to get to the "PBL" state, then do CP then EP.

#### Filipe Teixeira

##### Member
so I noticed that when you have the T oll and the last slot is 3 move insert, the wv looks like the T itself. And it's possible to predict coll by looking at the top stickers and one sticker on the D layer.

what about predicting coll before the 3 move insert?

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=F-_r_U_R-_U-_r-_F_R&alg=R_U_R-

#### Aerma

Basically you solve the first layer unpermuted an then the last layer with oll than pbl so somewhat like Ortega for 3x3
Let's do the math - 22 PLL states on top (counting solved) time 22 PLL states on the bottom. Then there's also the E layer to be solved. With EO being solved, there's 12 states I believe. Without EO necessarily being solved, I believe there's ~96. All together that's 46464 cases and algorithms for the PBL step. Multiply that by two if you solve the first side without making sure there's no parity, or just do M2 U2 M2 before PBL. Either way, it isn't possible. People have enough trouble learning a few hundred for ZBLL, imagine over fourty-six thousand.

#### Aerma

so I noticed that when you have the T oll and the last slot is 3 move insert, the wv looks like the T itself. And it's possible to predict coll by looking at the top stickers and one sticker on the D layer.

what about predicting coll before the 3 move insert?

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=F-_r_U_R-_U-_r-_F_R&alg=R_U_R-
(sorry for the double post!)

Possible? Yes. Easy? Sort of. Better than insertion + regular COLL? Probably not worth the effort. I'd love to be proven wrong though, as always when I'm pessimistic about something

#### Sue Doenim

##### Member
so I noticed that when you have the T oll and the last slot is 3 move insert, the wv looks like the T itself. And it's possible to predict coll by looking at the top stickers and one sticker on the D layer.

what about predicting coll before the 3 move insert?

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=F-_r_U_R-_U-_r-_F_R&alg=R_U_R-
Kian Mansour has a video on predicting CMLL before finishing second block, which is a really similar idea.

#### Filipe Teixeira

##### Member
Kian Mansour has a video on predicting CMLL before finishing second block, which is a really similar idea.
weird video... too much thinking
my idea was to learn each pattern just like coll recognition, not tracking where each piece goes

#### Skewbed

##### Member
weird video... too much thinking
my idea was to learn each pattern just like coll recognition, not tracking where each piece goes
That would be a lot of cases, just like how OLL grows into to VLS.

#### Filipe Teixeira

##### Member
That would be a lot of cases, just like how OLL grows into to VLS.
yeah but maybe learning some cases could led straight into coll

#### WoowyBaby

##### Member
Method Goal: To create the best edges-first method. Edges-first is generally really terrible, but today I'm making it good.

-Method Steps-
#1- EO on 2 axis. Can also be thought of orienting edges on one axis and placing the E layer edges. If you’re going for speed, try to plan this whole step in inspection.
#2- Finish edges. Solve the edges using domino (R2 L2 U D F2 B2) moves. A really helpful tip is to form edge pairs on the U/D layers, it makes easy to finish from there, and also don’t forget about the middle layer.
#3- Solve corners w/ 4 comms. Solve corners in the easiest order, don’t try to make a layer or solve specific pieces or anything like that. Try to solve 2 corners per commutator, and then solve the last 3 corners with one.
It’s important to note that it sometimes only requires 3 comms and others it can take 5, just 4 is by far the most common.

-Example Solve-
Scramble: L' D2 L2 D2 F2 L2 R2 D' R2 F2 L2 F2 B' D' B2 U2 B' U2 L' U2 F
(y')
R' U D' F L' D2 L // EO on 2 axis (7)
E' L2 D R2 D2 R2 // Finish edges (6)
x' L D L' U' L D' L' U // 1st Comm (8)
x2 R' D' R U R' D R // 2nd Comm (7)
L D' L' U' L D L' // 3rd Comm (7)
B2 R' U R D R' U' R D' B2 // 4th Comm (10)

Edges in 13
Corners in 32
= only 45 moves! (more efficient than many other methods!)

Also- No algorithms!

-----

What are your thoughts on this?

Last edited:

##### Member
What are your thoughts on this?
It's better than most edges first methods, and it's quite unique. I like it, but I'm quite inexperienced with EO-based methods such as ZZ and DR, so I don't know if it really is as good as I think it is.

#### Julianek

##### Member
Im genius!
Why everyone is solving Cfop with cross at the begening if you can solve first 2 blocks just like in Roux (Im Roux solver so thats why I came up with this solution). It gives you lot of efficiency because of free M slice and makes the solve rotationless (lot of cool-roux pairing tricks). Then before the last layer you solve front and back cross edges, and you can use this step to solve U layer edges (propably slightly longer EOLR from roux). Then just COLL and cube is solved
Number of moves=FB 8~10+SB 16~19 + 1LL6E I bet something like~15 + COLL ~10=49~54 (Kian daud thet he solves cube in 60 moves on average)
. It's genius isn' it?

#### WombatWarrior17

##### Member
Im genius!
Why everyone is solving Cfop with cross at the begening if you can solve first 2 blocks just like in Roux (Im Roux solver so thats why I came up with this solution). It gives you lot of efficiency because of free M slice and makes the solve rotationless (lot of cool-roux pairing tricks). Then before the last layer you solve front and back cross edges, and you can use this step to solve U layer edges (propably slightly longer EOLR from roux). Then just COLL and cube is solved
Number of moves=FB 8~10+SB 16~19 + 1LL6E I bet something like~15 + COLL ~10=49~54 (Kian daud thet he solves cube in 60 moves on average)
. It's genius isn' it?
This is one of the most (if not the most) commonly proposed methods. It's just a worse version of Roux and CFOP. It's not worth doing at all.

#### Julianek

##### Member
This is one of the most (if not the most) commonly proposed methods. It's just a worse version of Roux and CFOP. It's not worth doing at all.
Ah really hmm. But why is it worse than CFOP? It gives you rotationless slove and lowers the move count.

#### SM cubing

##### Member
it doesnt lower the move count. its more inefficient than cross+f2l ESPECIALLY with fingertricks as M moves arent that great, and if you like them than just use roux