# [Help Thread]F2L Discussion and Help

#### Llewelys

##### Member
I'm not the best to answer this since F2L takes me like 10 seconds, but I'd say you need to know how the cube works extremely well to achieve 5 sec F2L.
By this I mean that you should know several ways to solve each pair, because solving that pair with alg #1 will make the following pair a bad case, but if you solve it with alg #2 then it'll give you a 3 mover.
Something like that.
Or if you have two pairs, knowing which one to do first so you don't end up with a sucky case for the other one.

Basically knowing how every algorithm affects the cube.

#### Gašper Potočnik

##### Member
I'm not the best to answer this since F2L takes me like 10 seconds, but I'd say you need to know how the cube works extremely well to achieve 5 sec F2L.
By this I mean that you should know several ways to solve each pair, because solving that pair with alg #1 will make the following pair a bad case, but if you solve it with alg #2 then it'll give you a 3 mover.
Something like that.
Or if you have two pairs, knowing which one to do first so you don't end up with a sucky case for the other one.

Basically knowing how every algorithm affects the cube.
Yes maybe i need to learn how to do case in all 4 angles?:https://www.cubeskills.com/tutorials/f2l-algorithms-different-slot-positions

#### Coinman_

##### Member
Solving the green orange pair in the back (the corner is upper front left at the moment)

I just U2 then RU’R’ to pair them up, then I rotate and insert.

Is there any more efficient way to do this case?

View attachment 10943
U2 F' R' U' R F

##### Member
U2 F' R' U' R F
The best one yet!

I won’t forget that now.

Thanks

#### stilloutthere

##### Member
Having read that most of the megaminx solutions are F2L I'm wondering if it will assist my 3x3 solving?

I am new to speedcubing and just learning F2L intuitively now after the beginners method. Already have 2 look OLL and 2 look PLL down so it's really just drilling cross and F2L for the moment.

And looking for a good excuse to get another puzzle

#### asacuber

##### Member
I believe it does play a part, but i'm not very good at megaminx

##### Member
on megaminx its mainly about setting up pieces far apart into easy f2l cases instead of working with what cases you are given on a 3x3

#### DESTRUCTIONTAMTAM

##### Member
Well, Megaminx is just a more layered 3x3, so it may, but your hands will feel awkward after 10-15 solves on the Megaminx.

Edit: I just read you learned beginner Cfop, So good luck in your cubing career!

#### Etotheipi

##### Member
It might help with color neutral f2l, as you have to solve pairs with different bottom color throughout a mega solve.

#### TheLegend12

##### Member
Personally, I am not great at megaminx but I feel that it is the other way around. The faster that you are at 3x3 then the faster you will be at Mega. Look at Phillip Lewicki for example. He is world-class at three by three and also world class at mega.

#### fortissim2

##### Member
Ever since I saw Feliks' 3.41 single, I became very interested on inserting pairs with Fw.
I found that these algs are very useful for pairs that you usually need to rotate for RU-gen insert:

Fw R' Fw'
Fw R Fw'

Are they useful to learn for an almost sub-12 cuber?

#### SenorJuan

##### Member
It's worth adding that their rotationless nature means they are useful if you're trying to insert rear slots first, to make the last two slots easier/better lookahead.
It's not relevant in the case of Feliks' solve, as it WAS the last slot, and I personally would've chosen to rotate y and solve the front-right slot. [ but I'm not that hot, and save the fancy inserts for FMC ]

#### Mischiiii

##### Member
Im currently averaging about 50sec and I’m currently focusing on F2L and color neutrality.

My biggest problem is which case i should use and if i need to rotate.

Case 1: R U R’ inserts with white on the side and different colors on top.

Case 2: white on the side and same colors on top.

Case 3: white on top.

For me case 3 is the most easy case to recognize. If the side color of the edge is left or right i don’t have to rotate and can just orient the edge to match the side color turn it away from it’s slot and put the corner on top. I use it always when white is already on the top face.

For case 1 or 2 i most of the time get confused on which one to use and if i should rotate. Especially if one piece is in slot.

For what should i look when i need to decide what case to use?

Maybe it’ll help to hear how you guys decide (intuitively) which case to use and what clues to look for that tell you if you need to rotate (like i described in case 3).

Thank you

#### MarkA64

##### Member
How do you know which F2L pairs to solve first for maximum efficiency?

I usually focus on the front right slot first always and rotate if needed, but some people have recommended working with the pieces that end up in the top layer after cross.

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#### Llewelys

##### Member
@Mischiiii
It's explained here, between 1:00 and 4:00

@MarkA64
Are you talking about which pair to plan during inspection / to track during cross ?
If so:
- If you want to focus on one specific pair regardless on where it'll end up after cross, I would suggest focusing on the pair going to the back left slot rather than the front right slot.
- If not, you can either choose the pair where the pieces won't move much during cross (works really well for 2 gen crosses), or indeed choose one where the pieces end up on the top layer.

#### Fredrick

##### Member
So I was going through some example solves and noticed that every so often instead of rotating a person would do a wide d move. Which should I do more often? Rotations or Wide D moves.

#### Mischiiii

##### Member
@Mischiiii
It's explained here, between 1:00 and 4:00

@MarkA64
Are you talking about which pair to plan during inspection / to track during cross ?
If so:
- If you want to focus on one specific pair regardless on where it'll end up after cross, I would suggest focusing on the pair going to the back left slot rather than the front right slot.
- If not, you can either choose the pair where the pieces won't move much during cross (works really well for 2 gen crosses), or indeed choose one where the pieces end up on the top layer.
I guess i wasn’t specific enough. I can solve all of the cases easily but i just sometimes Come across pairs that can be solved both ways. Also i try to be move efficient. This video (which i already saw when learning f2l) is very basic. But sometimes the difference between a R U R‘ insert (best insert) and a case 2 insert is having to do a F or B move. And those always suck.

#### MarkA64

##### Member
@Mischiiii
It's explained here, between 1:00 and 4:00

@MarkA64
Are you talking about which pair to plan during inspection / to track during cross ?
If so:
- If you want to focus on one specific pair regardless on where it'll end up after cross, I would suggest focusing on the pair going to the back left slot rather than the front right slot.
- If not, you can either choose the pair where the pieces won't move much during cross (works really well for 2 gen crosses), or indeed choose one where the pieces end up on the top layer.
Just curious as to why you supported focusing on the back left slot. Thanks, btw!

Edit: I suppose it's quite wise to take a peek at that back slot.

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#### Llewelys

##### Member
So I was going through some example solves and noticed that every so often instead of rotating a person would do a wide d move. Which should I do more often? Rotations or Wide D moves.
Rotations and d moves both require to regrip both hands but there's a bigger risk of locking up during a d move, so I would favour rotations.
But the difference is minor so I guess it all comes down to personal preference.
I've never used d moves, maybe someone with more experience than me can give their hindsight?

I guess i wasn’t specific enough. I can solve all of the cases easily but i just sometimes Come across pairs that can be solved both ways. Also i try to be move efficient. This video (which i already saw when learning f2l) is very basic. But sometimes the difference between a R U R‘ insert (best insert) and a case 2 insert is having to do a F or B move. And those always suck.
Could you provide an example? I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
You also asked about how to know if you need to rotate or not: well you said it yourself, if the side color of the edge matches either the left or right colors then you don't need to rotate.

Just curious as to why you supported focusing on the back left slot.
It's generally a good idea to fill back slots sooner rather than later for look ahead reasons: you can't see as well what going on there. That's especially true for the BL slot, since when you solve your cube is slightly tilted and that's the slot you see the least. (Unless you're a left hand dominant solver, then the BR slot is the one you should fill first)

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#### MarkA64

##### Member
d moves are better and more efficient than cube rotations in a lot of scenarios during F2L