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[Help Thread] Xcross Tips and Discussion

abr71310

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I still have yet to see an EFFECTIVE (one that helps one intuitively figure out how to build an...) x-cross tutorial on YouTube.

I understand how the dynamics of it is supposed to work; build a 2x2x2 WHILE solving the cross, but how does one keep track of the pieces fast enough to be able to build that area's cross, then insert the corner, then FINISH the cross, all from pre-inspection's memory??

-- I realize my average is a little misleading, but I've only ever built x-crosses by accident or when i see that the normal cross is complicated and i can use the top later to build a 2x2x2block WHILE solving the other two edge pieces on the D-layer...

I can do this for SOME solves (on average, MAYBE 1/50??), but I'd like to do it much more often as I can see now in some YouTube vids (like Nakajima's) that pros are able to see double x-crosses and build them quite effectively, putting their F2L somewhere between 4 and 6 seconds... (I just want ~12 - 17 second F2L including x-cross... :\\)

If anybody could explain to me the exact thought process through ANY (so, a GENERAL ALGORITHM) building of an x-cross, or make a YouTube/paper tutorial as to WHAT ONE HAS TO DO EXACTLY (what goes through your head) to build ANY x-cross on command... I would greatly appreciate it.

Sorry for making this so convoluted, it's a little early in the morning where I come from.
 

PatrickJameson

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For most people, x-crosses are used on a "If I see one I'll do it" occasion. As for what goes on my my head, it's something like this;

See nice blocks -> "ooo! x-cross!" -> Intuitivly build x-cross

If you want to get better, just practice building blocks and stuff.
 

Lofty

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Right, I don't think anyone builds x-cross on every solve. Most people just do it when we see cases that are easy. Mostly like when Stuff like Blah says is already done for you. Like if when doing the cross you get a corner too and see the edge is on top to insert easy you can do that before aligning the cross.
The video shown isn't really a true x-cross since it is 2x2x2 into cross but it is a good start. You may want to go on Johannes's site and practice your 2x2x2 blocks for awhile if you want to do x-cross. I don't know where his site is anymore So I can't really help there. Sorry.
 
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abr71310

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Read this too: http://www.speedcubing.com/chris/f2l.html
Extremely useful imo.
It was BECAUSE of that site that made me think "WTF, that doesn't help MUCH (yes, it gave EXAMPLE scrambles and solutions), but in the real world of speedcubing the likelyhood of you running into that exact scramble is "not gunna happen" anytime soon. :\\

I was fiddling with ideas in class as to how to go abouts doing this; and I figured out two "simple" but definitely inefficient ways:

One is to build the 2x2x1 block (corner/edge piece for the F2L rather than the cross) and insert that, then build the cross AROUND it...

or build one piece of the cross, the 2x2x1 edge that corresponds to that, and THEN the last part of the cross (and maybe do a double/triple x-cross following the same basis)...

I thought that my "methods" followed more of a Petrus feel to solve; but that's not what I want to accomplish; I -LOVE- the Fridrich method and I am NOT willing to part with it until I can get at least 10 sub-20 solve averages (in a row)... so I just wanted to learn how to build extended crosses so I could expand my "knowledge" of the cube a bit further...

I appreciate the petrus block-building sites, but I really do think there is a faster way :\\
 

IamWEB

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If you feel comfortable with good inspection:

When inspecting for cross pieces and planning it's execution, look for an easy F2L pair. Although much harder to plan, work out a plan to do both your cross and first pair.

If it helps, work on manipulating a single corner while solving the cross;determine that corner in inspection. After some practice, work on manipulating a corner and it's corresponding edge in any way. Try the same scramble as you do this, and change how you work with the pair in various ways. See which way you must work them around while solving the cross, to pair them up correctly. Then, finish the cross, and insert them. Go slowly there, you can solve the pair before finishing the cross, thus making it an 'X-cross' (although doing the cross and then the paired up pieces may take the same number of moves, doing the pair first is cooler :D).

Practice many times for awhile, and it should gradually become easier to do.

If you just can't seem to work well with certain cases, just do a regular cross, as it will be faster if it would take for than 15+ seconds to work out an x-cross.
 
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Lord Voldemort

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Multislotting/X-Cross

I was just wondering how many of the really good people use Multislotting or Extended Crosses... I think it would be nice to see exactly when a lot of people start to get into that stuff. For those of you that don't know what they are, X-Cross (also Extended Cross) is where you build the cross with one F2l pair already inserted. Multislotting is where you build the 2nd pair while inserting the first one (I think)
 
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Escher

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ive seen all of the good cubers use x-cross at one point or another. its just a very nice technique to be aware of.

the creators of the site with the original multislotting pages (sebastien felix and thibaut) use multislotting, but i dont think that they actually know that many of the algs, its more that its part of their 'absolute mind' concept - they aim to influence or solve the next pair/oll all the way through their f2l stage.

they're at
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/absolutemind/index-angl.html
if you hadnt found it already.

EDIT

if you've made it into a poll then you probably dont really 'get' what either of the two concepts are...

- x-cross can be used in some occasions incredibly easily, so most cubers will use it. particularly if you are aware of keyhole.

- multislotting as a concept is about 'making your next pair easier/done'. so i multislot. but i dont say that i 'multislot', because its just an obvious thing for me to do, and is just part of my lookahead. i suppose that its more just a name for the 'absolute mind' concept. you dont learn algorithms for it, or if you do, you just don't really get it. the algorithms are there so that you'll try and work out and understand how they work, they aren't just there to learn.
 
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Lord Voldemort

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I don't think Multislot is really practical on explaining in a video... Unless there's some sort of intutive approach? I've seen a few X-Cross tutorials on youtube, but theu're not really all that great. Maybe that was because I looked at them when I was in the late 30s, but still.

EDIT: @ Ecscher - No, I didn't really understand them. As I'm getting closer and closer to the Sub 20 Mark (Sub 23 now), I'm beginning to wonder if I can possibly go Sub 15. And I wanted to know if you had to learn and master new concepts to get there rather than just use plain Fridrich.

What's your current average, btw? I was looking at your WCA page, and apperently you're around the same place I am. If that's the case, then I must be bad at F2l for not understanding those concepts intuitively.
 
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Weiseguy

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Now I am around 40-45s, so I probably shouldn't reply.

But I was under the impression that x-cross was more of a "if you can do it do it, but it isn't necessary for sub-15." That being said, I also was under the impression that multi-slotting was filling/matching 2 pairs up at once. When solving 1 pair, u are simultaneously solving/pairing up another.
 

Escher

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I don't think Multislot is really practical on explaining in a video... Unless there's some sort of intutive approach? I've seen a few X-Cross tutorials on youtube, but theu're not really all that great. Maybe that was because I looked at them when I was in the late 30s, but still.

EDIT: @ Escher - No, I didn't really understand them. As I'm getting closer and closer to the Sub 20 Mark (Sub 23 now), I'm beginning to wonder if I can possibly go Sub 15. And I wanted to know if you had to learn and master new concepts to get there rather than just use plain Fridrich.

What's your current average, btw? I was looking at your WCA page, and apperently you're around the same place I am. If that's the case, then I must be bad at F2l for not understanding those concepts intuitively.
im afraid im considerably better than i was in november, and even then that was terrible for me :)

see
http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9008
for an 'average' avg of 5.

and no, dont worry about these concepts, particularly multislotting. if you want to get sub 15, all you need is good lookahead, full fridrich (preferably, but not necessarily), and a decent tps.
if i were you, all i'd do is play with different insertions, i.e. RU'R', R U2 R' and R'FRF', and figure out what they do to the rest of the cube. thats all you really need to know. check out the example solves in the multislotting section of the link i gave you in the other post to see what i'm on about.

and you'll hit sub 20 in no time, honestly. it may seem like a big barrier, but just keeping in mind and practicing a few things really will make you fly past it. particularly, working on less cube rotations, practicing LL times and recognition, doing lots of slow/smooth solves to practice lookahead, and optimising your f2l cases are important... :)
 

fanwuq

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I'm sub-20, I do xCross quite a bit, and try to do Multi-slotting whenever I see it, but I can't do it often. It's like as rare as MGLS for me. You don't need either to be a top speedcuber. I just use them because I'm crazy about FMC but sucks at speed Petrus.

Edit: see Lofty's comment below. Although sometimes, I do focus on looking for 2x2x2 rather than cross.
 
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Lofty

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Idk. I think multislotting and xcross aren't methods they are just techniques. Like I'm sub-15 2H and sub-18 OH. I am very much aware about how to multislot and how to xcross but its not like every do them. I mean if it jumps out at me then I'll do it but its not like im looking to xcross every single solve and looking to multislot every single pair. I just do it when I see it which is like 01% of the time.
 
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