# [Help Thread]Xcross Tips and Discussion

#### Renslay

##### Member
and cross + 4 F2L pairs = XXXX-cross (see my link in signature that has to do with F2L and OLL skips)
Yeah, I know that solve, and the strangest / luckiest solve I've ever seen on this forum (and I'm here for a while...)

#### guysensei1

##### Member
and cross + 4 F2L pairs = XXXX-cross (see my link in signature that has to do with F2L and OLL skips)

Fun fact: I originally timed my solve on that scramble (I think it was a 13.xx?) but I didn't stumble upon that weirdness. I only got it while attempting to reconstruct what I did.

Last edited:

#### cmhardw

and cross + 4 F2L pairs = XXXX-cross (see my link in signature that has to do with F2L and OLL skips)
That's a crazy solve! I followed along with my cube, and my reactions were the same as your comments

@OP: I say use Xcross when you see it, otherwise try just building the cross + 1st F2L pair in weird/unusual ways and see if you like it. Don't aim to use it every solve, but aim to use it when you see something that is put together nicely for solving F2L + 1st pair in a new/cool way.

#### Ranzha

##### Friendly, Neighbourhoodly
Gonna pitch in and say that every cuber, at any level, should play around with whatever sounds cool to them. Try building a 2x2x2 block (like in the Petrus method), then add the other two cross pieces and finish f2l. It's fun! Eventually you'll be able to incorporate it into your speedsolving. If you want to improve quickly, turn your practise into play, and don't be afraid to ask questions and try new things, even if you still have much to learn with what you already do.
I came here to say this. I'd usually build a 2x2x2 and just keep building, maybe even leave cross edges until after the pairs are in!
Then again, I get much slower times with it (probably because I build cross and stuff on F...)

#### Escher

##### Babby
(probably because I build cross and stuff on F...)
Mm, I'm not a fan of this. Why have your eyes looking at information that isn't new! I can imagine an approach with first two edges where execution would be better but after that you don't need that information any more

#### MarcelP

##### Member

Fun fact: I originally timed my solve on that scramble (I think it was a 13.xx?) but I didn't stumble upon that weirdness. I only got it while attempting to reconstruct what I did.
LOL, that was a fun solve!

#### Thomasthecuber

##### Member
X cross

Wich is faster with the CFOP method:
-Cross and then f2l
-X cross and then f2l
I'm not a really good cuber. (I average minute)
But I will now this.
(my English is bad, I'm from the Netherlands)

#### lerenard

##### Member
Depends on the scramble and the cuber. If you can plan out the full x cross in inspection that will probably be faster than a cross + 1st pair. If you're interested in working on xcross, learn the Petrus method

#### Thomasthecuber

##### Member
ok, do you use the x cross?

#### Lazy Einstein

##### Alg Ninja
Do untimed solves. Do a ton of solves and do every scramble twice. Once doing your best Cross and once doing your best X-Cross. It will help you to decide in inspection time whether an X-Cross would be worth it or not on a scramble. As Lerenard said, it really depends on the scramble. Why would you a 9 move X-Cross if you have a 3 move cross with a pair tracked.

Train to see when it is worth it. Don't forget as well, that although very minor, look ahead could be a little more difficult after an X-Cross. As where on a cross, you can track your 1st pair and move instantly to tracking your 2nd pair while inserting your 1st. Could be a pause less solve that way. Benefits to both, just train to be able to make use of good X-Crosses when you see them.

#### lerenard

##### Member
ok, do you use the x cross?
More than most people. I'm color neutral, so basically whenever there's a pair already formed of any color I make an xcross (but I think of it more as a 2x2x2 block +2 cross edges.)

#### CriticalCubing

##### Member
More than most people. I'm color neutral, so basically whenever there's a pair already formed of any color I make an xcross (but I think of it more as a 2x2x2 block +2 cross edges.)
I also see it like that. I make a petrus block and add 2 edges. Viola...X-Cross made. For double x cross, I do it like roux. Create first block, then add 3 edges.

#### Imran Rahman

##### Member
Hey guys! I am a sub 16 cuber. I am having problems in x-cross. Can you pls give me nice tutorial for x-cross??

#### RhysC

##### Member
An X-Cross isn't a method but a tool you can use. It's a bit like building a cross, where you can't really have a tutorial for it, but rather, look at peoples example solves and try and go from there.

#### Abare Killer

##### Member
How long did it take you guys to learn and get comfortable with the x-cross? And also, any way to learn it faster? And can you send me a good x-cross tutorial? Please comment only if you know x-cross, thanks!

Last edited:

##### Member
X-cross isn't somehing you learn really. It's just if you see you can build a 2x2x2 block or something easilt and do the cross at the same time then you do it.

#### jdh3000

##### Member
In a cfop 3x3 solve, we normally do cross plus 1st pair. I've watched videos on x cross and typically the way they are presented is if you see two pieces, cross edge, together you can pair them up with another edge and insert.
It's not a common occurrence and difficult for me to preserve pieces. At any rate I have been working on it as well as the keyhole for x cross.

My question is: If I see the first 3 cross pieces, and and f2l pair that can easily be inserted, just like I would after the cross, but before the last cross piece is in, then can quickly insert the last cross piece, while looking at my 2nd pair, is that seen as an efficient x cross?

I can more often see this setup better than planning my cross and first f2l pair.

Do you ever do this?

I saw Jperm do this in a couple of example solves, but he didn't expand on it.

This seems to come up quite often, in fact it seems in most cases that it's optional as to whether to do this or cross plus 1st pair.
Sometimes I'm even able to flip a bad edge by doing this first.

I know proof is in the pidding and I should just time it several times to see, but I just wondered how many are doing it and if it's worth pursuing.

I know still in all it won't guarantee an x cross everytime, but seems useful.

While discusing this, does anyone block build a side like in roux, then finish the cross around it if it looks like it can be done quickly?

Thanks!

#### CyoobietheCuber

##### Member
I don’t use this technique myself, but I think that this might actually work because a lot of people just insert their last edge when doing cross. So if an F2L pair is solved I don’t think it’ll affect movecount or fingertricks. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong.

#### abunickabhi

##### Member
Staff member
There are a lot of things that you can do to build x-crosses in solves. you can try the way of doing just 3 cross edges, but then if the last cross edge is not well placed, it affects lookahead. Its better to do a lot of solves, and learn from the experience that you get during the solves.