The New Method / Substep / Concept Idea Thread

[shadowslice e]

we do however need a glossary, so someone will have to reread all the pages in this thread, and organize them based on preferably method. if anyone would want to do this themselves please post that you will organize the glossary. if no one would, i will transform this post into the glossary. this will not be completed fast (i guess this will take many weeks) but it will be done persistently, and for new information, regularly. so everyone knows, the new glossary is in the middle of the book, page 204.

edit: it's not in the middle of the book now, but eventually it will be.

Isn't this what the wiki is for?

 

[Abram Lookadoo]

Isn't this what the wiki is for?

not everything in this thread is in the wiki

i do not know how to change the wiki. i will first create a draft of a glossary based on attributes of each method, look up a tutorial on editing the wiki, then make a more organized table of contents for the wiki.

 

[shadowslice e]

not everything in this thread is in the wiki

Then make a page on the wiki under "partially explored ideas" or something then and leave a description if you want.

I'd just like to go on record here (as someone who has been through more or less every page in this thread) that most ideas are brought up multiple times and discarded equally quickly. So if you go through this thread it contains very few unique ideas.

 

[Thermex]

inb4 all the algs in this algset look quite a bit like CMLL conjugates


yes

I don't know what you're doing for recog but in my experience it's only very slightly harder than CMLL and easier than ZBLL.

You shouldn't have to ARF in order to solve. Ideally you would just build the block so it ends up that way. In more advanced versions you don't even have to orient the corner.

The BTR algs are likey faster (especially when set specific algs are used instead of just CMLL) because I predict most of the algs for "L4E" will start with an R which BTR avoids (and most BTR algs don't start with an R')

While we're here, I'll just list all the reasons for BTR over L4E:
1) The algs are shorter (explained above)
2) Recog is not harder (because you look at the same number of stickers and have the same number of cases)
3) It sets up nicely for intuitive L7E
4) There are less algs
5) It can be used more easily with other advanced techniques such as NMLL.

Also, why are you calling it L4E? You don't solve any edges let alone the last 4.

The movecount is the same. I average about 16 moves with it without any algs and it also becomes much more possible to force nice cases because you are not restricted in that sense.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the cases are CMLL conjugates, but there are definitely some cases that will be be optimized by using L4C. The recog is just a little bit better since you mostly are just focusing on where the D-layer sticker is of the four pieces. And seriously, sorry for saying L4E, that was a simple mistake and I was at school and didn't have time to edit it. Anyway I'll go ahead and just gen the algs and show everybody them this weekend, that's the only real way to determine whether this is any good.

Hello everyone. How are you?

There are too many methods on this thread, and i have no idea what's going on. let's thin them out.

any method that cant get "sub-40 htm" on this scramble shall be permanently eliminated from discussion because it's obsolete (mods WILL enforce this with permabans!). please provide a linear solution to the following scramble before you continue blabbering.

B2 R2 B' D2 L2 F2 L2 F D2 R2 U B L' R F R U' L' B2 D'

thank you for your time, and god bless america

Spoiler: petrus method (28 htm, 27 stm)

y' x' B' U' F' R U' F B' L
F R F' U R' U2 F' U F R U // R' cancels
R2 F2 R' B2 R F2 R' B2 R2

Spoiler: zz method (29 htm, 27 stm)

D F D' R' B L U F'
R' L U' L2 U' R L' U' L2
U2 R' U R2 U2 R' U R2 U2 R2 U' R

Ranking	Method	Movecount	Submitter
1.	Petrus	28 htm	mdipalma
2.	ZZ	29 htm	mdipalma
3.	2GR	35 stm	elo13
3.	cpfl->2gll	35 stm	elo13
5.	Zzoux	38 htm	pyjam
5.	CFOP	38 htm	elo13
7.	Briggs	39 htm	arc

I feel like this is a thread to throw out random ideas, not prove and develop them. I'll try to provide scrambles more often for my ideas, but I definitely don't think you should get banned for not doing this. I'm not that bothered by the rule, however I really don't think it's all that necessary. We all (especially me) say "sub-40" too much but I think of it as less of what describes a method in its current state and more of a far off goal a method may reach when learned and perfected.

 

[efattah]

During an LMCF practice session I got a very interesting scramble that resulted in a 3-look solution to the entire cube!!

https://alg.cubing.net/?setup=R_U_F...ve_last_edge M2_U_M2_U2_M2_U_M2_//_H-Perm

Scramble: R U F2 L B' L F' R B' R2 L2 U' B2 R2 U' B2 U L2 B2 D

// 1st look during inspection
y x' S' F U' R U R' U // green face
F R' F' R U R U' R' // CLL

// 2nd look during the solve
U M2 U M U2 M' U M2 // EPLL U-Perm

// 3rd look during the solve
z U' M U M' L // solve last edge
M2 U M2 U2 M2 U M2 // H-Perm

Total 35 STM

Considering that one look was done during the inspection, the entire 'timed' solve involved only 2 looks. I'm a slow turner and I finished it in 13.7 seconds, but this could be finger tricked in 3 seconds or even less...

 

[mDiPalma]

if your method is truly sub-40-capable in a speedsolve, it should be trivial to find a sub-40 linear solution to that scramble (given infinite time/attempts/tools)

it seems the only entries i have been sent are for well-established methods & their derivatives. are none of the other methods being discussed here capable of solving a cube in <40 moves?

 

[Teoidus]

Here's a 2 ETM solve with TERM1 (this one took a while, tricky scramble):
https://alg.cubing.net/?puzzle=1x1x...L2_F_D2_R2_U_B_L-_R_F_R_U-_L-_B2_D-_&alg=z2_x

 

[Thermex]

if your method is truly sub-40-capable in a speedsolve, it should be trivial to find a sub-40 linear solution to that scramble (given infinite time/attempts/tools)

it seems the only entries i have been sent are for well-established methods & their derivatives. are none of the other methods being discussed here capable of solving a cube in <40 moves?

FB: x z' D L2 D' U' L U R L U (9/9)
BLSquare: x' M' U' L U2 l' (5/14)
VL4C: U F U' R U' R' U F' (8/22)
FREO: U2 R' E r U r' E' R (8/30)
4bc: U' M' U2 M U' M2 U (7/37)

ezpz, did this in one solve (no rescrambles). I actually think your movecount-table proposition is pretty reasonable tho, I misunderstood it earlier. anyway this solve was pretty average for this method ("V3" is what I call it), also most of the VL4C cases are NOT conjugated CMLLs.

 

[efattah]

Hello everyone. How are you?
There are too many methods on this thread, and i have no idea what's going on. let's thin them out.
any method that cant get "sub-40 htm" on this scramble shall be permanently eliminated from discussion

Scramble: B2 R2 B' D2 L2 F2 L2 F D2 R2 U B L' R F R U' L' B2 D'

LMCF solution, one of many

R' U2 B' R F U' R F U2 // corners [9]
x2 U M U' // E2L pair [3]
x L' M U M2 U L U M2 U' L' U2 // E2L triplet [11]
x U' M' U M U2 M' U2 M' U' M2 U' M U2 R // LSE [14]

37 STM

 

[Thermex]

Here's a 2 ETM solve with TERM1 (this one took a while, tricky scramble):
https://alg.cubing.net/?puzzle=1x1x...L2_F_D2_R2_U_B_L-_R_F_R_U-_L-_B2_D-_&alg=z2_x

TERM1 looks like it could have some serious potential and maybe even achieve sub-40 movecounts.

 

[xyzzy]

we do however need a glossary, so someone will have to reread all the pages in this thread, and organize them based on preferably method. if anyone would want to do this themselves please post that you will organize the glossary. if no one would, i will transform this post into the glossary. this will not be completed fast (i guess this will take many weeks) but it will be done persistently, and for new information, regularly. so everyone knows, the new glossary is in the middle of the book, page 204.

I had a catalogue up to around page 40, then I gave up.

I'd just like to go on record here (as someone who has been through more or less every page in this thread) that most ideas are brought up multiple times and discarded equally quickly. So if you go through this thread it contains very few unique ideas.

Depends on the threshold at which you consider something to be "unique". I thought I could classify every post into a small number of different methods, but I was wrong. I gave up indexing this thread because there were too many ideas that were just "method X, but you do Y instead of Z" and Y/Z differed from proposal to proposal.

 

[efattah]

I had a catalogue up to around page 40, then I gave up.
Depends on the threshold at which you consider something to be "unique". I thought I could classify every post into a small number of different methods, but I was wrong. I gave up indexing this thread because there were too many ideas that were just "method X, but you do Y instead of Z" and Y/Z differed from proposal to proposal.

In my mind if someone posts an average of 5 or 12 on youtube, then that method counts as a method and should get catalogued. Prior to that it is still in the theoretical phase.

 

[Hazel]

Scramble: B2 R2 B' D2 L2 F2 L2 F D2 R2 U B L' R F R U' L' B2 D'

LMCF solution, one of many

R' U2 B' R F U' R F U2 // corners [9]
x2 U M U' // E2L pair [3]
x L' M U M2 U L U M2 U' L' U2 // E2L triplet [11]
x U' M' U M U2 M' U2 M' U' M2 U' M U2 R // LSE [14]

37 STM

Are there any full guides to LMCF? It seems like something I'd like to learn.

 

[shadowslice e]

Are there any full guides to LMCF? It seems like something I'd like to learn.

I think the most complete one is probably the first post in the LMCF thread.

 

[Thermex]

Are there any full guides to LMCF? It seems like something I'd like to learn.

@efattah has a link to a pdf that has all of the algs and cases someone would need to know to learn LMCF. He links it in the first post of the the thread.

 

[shadowslice e]

not everything in this thread is in the wiki.

https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Partially_Explored_Ideas
Go nuts

 

[Neuro]

2GRoux solve: 35 STM, 41 HTM

x y U f' R2 F' M U' R u2//CPFB (8/8)
R2 U r' U R U R2 U' M2 U r' U M'//SB+PP (13/21)
U' r' U2 R U R' U r//OLL (8/29)
U M2 U M' U2 M'//LSE (6/35)

42 solve: 38 STM, 44 HTM

z2 y' D' r' F2 D2 B//FB (5/5)
U2 R U' R U M' r U r'//SB (9/14)
U2 R2' U' R F R' U R2 U' R' F' R//BTR (12/26)
U R' U M U' M U M2 U M U2 M'//L7E (12/38)

 

[Hazel]

alrighty another roux-block type start method:
1) Roux block + centers and DB
2) 2x2x1 in BR
3) TSLE
4) 1 of 6 TTLLs (TTCLL)
5) EODF and cancel into EPLL

I know TTLL isn't the greatest but hey, only the corner cases and you don't have to worry about LL edges at all.

 

[Neuro]

I'm trying to come up with a simple beginners method that transitions into Roux rather than CFOP, right now this is what I have:

1: Solve 2 corners (DL)- Very easy for beginners to understand, completely intuitive
2: Solve FB- Use slice moves for intuitive insertion of edges
3: Solve D layer corners- Easy, intuitive
4: Solve SB- Use slice moves for easy inserts, *This and LSE are the hardest to teach*
5: CO- Teach Sune
6: CP- Teach an easy CP alg (like A/J/T perm)
7: LSE- Introduce them to EO and how to preserve it, no algs but familiarize with Arrow case *Maybe the hardest part of the method*

Here's a solve, obviously not very efficient but it should give a good idea as to what I'm going for

SCRAMBLE: U D B' R B2 U' B2 R' L' F B2 D2 R' U2 D2 L D2 R' U2 L' B2

D2 x' z' U2 F2//FB Corners (3/3)
u' R' u r' D M2 D'//FB Edges (7/10)
R' U R U' R' U R//SB Corners (7/17)
R2 U' M U r U' M U R2 U M2 U2 M2 U r'//SB edges (15/32)
U' R U R' U R U2 R'//CO (8/40)
x R' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 x'//CP (9/49)
M U M U' M' U M' U2 M' U2 M' U' M U2 M U2//LSE (16/65)

A possible improvement might be to solve a 1x2x3 line and then solve the other 2 edges rather than just corners.

 

[shadowslice e]

alrighty another roux-block type start method:
1) Roux block + centers and DB
2) 2x2x1 in BR
3) TSLE
4) 1 of 6 TTLLs (TTCLL)
5) EODF and cancel into EPLL

I know TTLL isn't the greatest but hey, only the corner cases and you don't have to worry about LL edges at all.

Isn't this 2OP from M-CELL?

I'm trying to come up with a simple beginners method that transitions into Roux rather than CFOP, right now this is what I have:

1: Solve 2 corners (DL)- Very easy for beginners to understand, completely intuitive
2: Solve FB- Use slice moves for intuitive insertion of edges
3: Solve D layer corners- Easy, intuitive
4: Solve SB- Use slice moves for easy inserts, *This and LSE are the hardest to teach*
5: CO- Teach Sune
6: CP- Teach an easy CP alg (like A/J/T perm)
7: LSE- Introduce them to EO and how to preserve it, no algs but familiarize with Arrow case *Maybe the hardest part of the method*

Here's a solve, obviously not very efficient but it should give a good idea as to what I'm going for

SCRAMBLE: U D B' R B2 U' B2 R' L' F B2 D2 R' U2 D2 L D2 R' U2 L' B2

D2 x' z' U2 F2//FB Corners (3/3)
u' R' u r' D M2 D'//FB Edges (7/10)
R' U R U' R' U R//SB Corners (7/17)
R2 U' M U r U' M U R2 U M2 U2 M2 U r'//SB edges (15/32)
U' R U R' U R U2 R'//CO (8/40)
x R' U R' D2 R U' R' D2 R2 x'//CP (9/49)
M U M U' M' U M' U2 M' U2 M' U' M U2 M U2//LSE (16/65)

A possible improvement might be to solve a 1x2x3 line and then solve the other 2 edges rather than just corners.

I feel like it might be better to do edges then corners for the FB like you would in normal beginners because I'm not sure etching weird slice moves to a beginner would go down that well.

Similar thing goes for the SB as well; solve DR and then insert corners, then solve the edges using the other stuff.

For LSE, it's not actually too bad to teach; I learned it purely frok being shown MUM' and worked everything else out from there.