# The New Method / Substep / Concept Idea Thread

##### Member
As someone who's used PCMS more than most, I can say for sure that L8E or even L8E with EO done beforehand, isn't a great step. The fastest method to solve L8E is probably to reduce it to Roux LSE, and then you're just doing a slow hybrid of PCMS and Roux, if I understand your steps correctly
Even what you're talking about is PCMS L8E which is UR UL UF UB DF DB DR DL and this is LSE + FR and BR, PCMS' L8E is more ergonomic.
read my post i say rotate first twice
rotating would actually make it worse xd

#### ObscureCuber

##### Member
Psuedo FB
CLL/WCLL
Normal SB + EO
do OREO
Last 2 L R edges (l2lr?)
solve last two edges with final edge alg
(ROTATE)
L8E+E slice(which is actually pretty nice in columns) just solve l8e however and use M2 U2 before rotation or R2 U2 after to solve edges
(clarifications)
also it would be fairly efficient L8E because before the rotation you would only have to do L6E EO instead of L8E EO

#### ObscureCuber

##### Member
It would just be Waterman.
what? lol how
you do all the previous steps and than solve L8E, one way is to Reduce to L6E and solve that

#### ObscureCuber

##### Member
FB
WCLL
3 redges (reducing it to LSE)
LSE
thats not what i said,
Psuedo FB
CLL/WCLL
Normal SB + EO
Last 2 L R edges (l2lr?)
(rotate)
L8E+E slice(which is actually pretty nice in columns)
You can reduce L8E TO L6E

##### Member
thats not what i said,
Psuedo FB
CLL/WCLL
Normal SB + EO
Last 2 L R edges (l2lr?)
(rotate)
L8E+E slice(which is actually pretty nice in columns)
I'm sorry but that's just worse than what I said.
EO in the middle would impact lookahead a ton, then rotating (!!!!!11111) then L8E + E slice and the ergonomics for it is not great.

#### ObscureCuber

##### Member
[/QUOTE]
EO in the middle would impact lookahead a ton, then rotating (!!!!!11111) then L8E + E slice and the ergonomics for it is not great.
[\QUOTE]
What you said is just waterman also here's the rundown
Fb-more efficient
2b-more efficient
Eo(same efficiency)
Oriented L8E(worse efficiency)
And a single rotation
So no you're wrong
They should be around the same in efficiency with it being slightly more so but having 1 rotation
Also eo In the middle wouldn't impact Ll ahead that much because it's right before a rotation, so the rotation is the look ahead problem, also oriented l8e is easy to recog also it's in the same spot it would be normally not in the middle

##### Member
(from me) "EO in the middle would impact lookahead a ton, then rotating (!!!!!11111) then L8E + E slice and the ergonomics for it is not great."
What you said is just waterman also here's the rundown
Fb-more efficient
2b-more efficient
Eo(same efficiency)
Oriented L8E(worse efficiency)
And a single rotation
So no you're wrong
L8E + E slice ergonomics would impact a ton, and it's less efficient, the problem is not EO's efficiency, no it's objectively small but it's definitely gonna make you pause for 500 years.

(EO in the middle is actually the main reason Petrus is dismissed in the community.)

Those two downsides alone can make this method bad.

#### ObscureCuber

##### Member
L8E + E slice ergonomics would impact a ton, and it's less efficient, the problem is not EO's efficiency, no it's objectively small but it's definitely gonna make you pause for 500 years.

(EO in the middle is actually the main reason Petrus is dismissed in the community.)
Just do U m2 U2 stuff before rotation

#### ObscureCuber

##### Member
After Eo you dont have to use E slice because you can permute edges before rotation

##### Member
EO in the middle would impact lookahead a ton, then rotating (!!!!!11111) then L8E + E slice and the ergonomics for it is not great.
[\QUOTE]
What you said is just waterman also here's the rundown
Fb-more efficient
2b-more efficient
Eo(same efficiency)
Oriented L8E(worse efficiency)
And a single rotation
So no you're wrong
They should be around the same in efficiency with it being slightly more so but having 1 rotation
Also eo In the middle wouldn't impact Ll ahead that much because it's right before a rotation, so the rotation is the look ahead problem, also oriented l8e is easy to recog also it's in the same spot it would be normally not in the middle
[/QUOTE]
Nope, EO in the middle still impacts alot and oriented L8E is bad for efficiency and ergonomics. (Petrus EO is less bad as you don't have to orient as many edges.)

#### ObscureCuber

##### Member
what? it kinda looks like you're denying disadvantages and just go with it.
I literally agreed in my post before last, I'm not doing that lol

#### ObscureCuber

##### Member
EO in the middle would impact lookahead a ton, then rotating (!!!!!11111) then L8E + E slice and the ergonomics for it is not great.
[\QUOTE]

Also eo In the middle wouldn't impact Ll ahead that much because it's right before a rotation, so the rotation is the look ahead problem, also oriented l8e is easy to recog also it's in the same spot it would be normally not in the middle
Nope, EO in the middle still impacts alot and oriented L8E is bad for efficiency and ergonomics.
[/QUOTE]

#### ObscureCuber

##### Member
Nope, EO in the middle still impacts alot and oriented L8E is bad for efficiency and ergonomics.
[/QUOTE]
Also it being bad for ergenomics doesn't matter
A. It's only slightly worse.
B. It's made up for by more efficient steps through the rest of the solve

##### Member
Also it being bad for ergenomics doesn't matter
A. It's only slightly worse.
B. It's made up for by more efficient steps through the rest of the solve
A. How? I've actually thought of L8E like this before, I dismissed because of the ergonomics.
B. How?

#### ObscureCuber

##### Member
BTW I'm not saying it's better than waterman I'm just arguing for why I think it's not a bad method and has pros