[Help Thread] CFOP Discussion

Ellsming said:
A lot of the time I think my cross is the worst part of F2L so I'm practising that more often. But if I look ahead more it means slowing down my turns, so I end up with similar times anyway. And as for my last layer I think recognition is the main problem at the minute. I spend too much time doing AUFs and recognising which case both OLL and PLL is.
Click to expand...
Don't underestimate the power of lookahead. Slow turns and no pause is better than fast turn and loads of pauses.
 
Chilli said:
I'm just about sub-20 on CFOP but after doing some times today I noticed that my last layer sucks- it can take as long as 10 seconds. I think this is a big issue since my f2l is usually 12-15 seconds and If I could cut down on LL, sub-20 would be much easier. Can you give me any tips on doing algs faster (especially N and V Plls) or just in general making LL faster?
Click to expand...
You can look at how fast people (like Feliks Zemdegs and Breandan Vallance) perform their PLLs. They show their finger tricks in their PLL videos on YouTube. People like them can sub 1 all of their PLL algorithms, so it may be worth looking into their finger tricks.

Try timing specifically algorithm execution. Try getting all of your OLLs under 1.5 seconds, and all your PLLs under 2 seconds. You can also do PLL time attacks - a pretty good time to strive for is 45 seconds or lower. And of course, if you haven't finished learning all your OLLs/PLLs you should finish learning those.

Hope that helps!
 
PCwizCube said:
You can look at how fast people (like Feliks Zemdegs and Breandan Vallance) perform their PLLs. They show their finger tricks in their PLL videos on YouTube. People like them can sub 1 all of their PLL algorithms, so it may be worth looking into their finger tricks.

Try timing specifically algorithm execution. Try getting all of your OLLs under 1.5 seconds, and all your PLLs under 2 seconds. You can also do PLL time attacks - a pretty good time to strive for is 45 seconds or lower. And of course, if you haven't finished learning all your OLLs/PLLs you should finish learning those.

Hope that helps!
Click to expand...
My OLLs are over 2 seconds, and my PLLs are 3 seconds, and I average 19 seconds. Also remember to work on F2L, because that is what will help you get sub 20. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnkSZZ6OoQ4
 
kunparekh18 said:
Hey PCWizCube you once said, you'll update the first post with some extras, when will you do that? :P
Click to expand...
Uh maybe in two weeks (spring break :))? Sorry I haven't been thinking about cubing much, so some of my knowledge/resources are outdated and I need to catch up on those.

cxinlee said:
My OLLs are over 2 seconds, and my PLLs are 3 seconds, and I average 19 seconds. Also remember to work on F2L, because that is what will help you get sub 20. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnkSZZ6OoQ4
Click to expand...
Yeah his goal times for OLL and PLL are probably better suited for you. But it doesn't hurt to get faster than that :D
 
Did splits on prisma puzzle timer. The cross is easy cross.
1.06
13.18
3.80
3.33
21.37. That is without pauses between steps and easy cross. I need to get cross faster and I would avg closer to sub-25.
 
I avg about 19 secs (18ish on a good day) with CFOP, I know all the PLL's and anywhere from about half to two-thirds of the OLL's. I'm starting to look into more algorithmic approaches to some of the more annoying f2l cases to speed that up. What do yall think I should focus on learning next? I've been putting off learning the OLL's because I hate them they're stupid and I'm lazy but I think the time has finally come to do it... I find myself on streaks where I get sub-18 solves with the oll cases i know but 20 sec times on the ones i don't and I have to use 2-look. It's starting to bother me so should I just go ahead and do it?


H/X: M2' U M2' U2 M2' U M2'
CCW U: R U' R U R U R U' R' U' R2
CW U: R2 U R U R' U' R' U' R' U R'
Z: R' U' R2 U R U R' U' R U R U' R U' R' (U2)
CW A: (x') R' D R' U2 R D' R' U2 R2 (x)
CCW A: (y' x') R2 U2 R D R' U2 R D' R
E: (y x') R U' R' D R U R' u2 R' U R D R' U' R (x')
F: R' U' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' U R
Ga: (y) R2' u R' U R' U' R u' R2 (y') R' U R
Gb: R' U' R (y) R2 u R' U R U' R u' R2
Gc: (y) R2' u' R U' R U R' u R2 (y) R U' R'
Gd: (y2) R U R' (y') R2 u' R U' R' U R' u R2
J: R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 R L
J: R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U'
N: R U R' U (R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R') U2 R U' R'
N: (z) (U' R D' R2' U R' D)2 (z')
R: R U2 R' U' R' F' R U2 R U2 R' F R U' R' U
R: R' U2 R U2 R' F R U R' U' R' F' R2' U'
T: R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F'
V: R' U R' U' (y x) R' F R' F' R2 U' R' U R U (x') -and/or- R U' L' U R' U' R U' L U R' U2 L' U2 L
Y: F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F'

What should I do now? continue just practicing, learn full olls, learn more f2l algs, or maybe you have better pll algs than the crap I've been using (especially nperms and e perm).
 
New cuber wants better advice

so I have a friend that has been cubing about a year and a half (he's been cubing before I met him) and he averages about 40 (3x3). He's really discouraged since he's been cubing so long and still so slow. He uses intuitive F2L and knows all 21 PLLs. He practices all the time but says his averages stay around 39 or 40. I don't know what to tell him, any ideas what might be holding him up?
 
Re: New cuber wants better advice

Two words - Look. Ahead. Get him to record himself solving and watch it back. Any money there's a 2 second pause after the cross and between each f2l pair. Eliminate those pauses and that's 10 seconds saved straight away.

I thought I was solving pretty smoothly, but then recorded and watched myself and was shocked by my pauses. Slow, steady cross + f2l practice and sub 30 will be easy.
 
pipkiksass said:
Two words - Look. Ahead. Get him to record himself solving and watch it back. Any money there's a 2 second pause after the cross and between each f2l pair. Eliminate those pauses and that's 10 seconds saved straight away.

I thought I was solving pretty smoothly, but then recorded and watched myself and was shocked by my pauses. Slow, steady cross + f2l practice and sub 30 will be easy.
Click to expand...

oh yeah! That's good advice! And actually I should prolly do that myself - I'm sure I'll be shocked too :) Thx
 
I personally prefer the F2L while paying attention to edge orientation over doing orientation first. I get edges oriented most of the time before I reach the last slot and anytime I don't, I solve it while placing the last pair. To increase my efficiency and lookahead, I was thinking of learning ZBF2L algorithms. You would need 86 of them if you did edge orientation with the second and third pair. Then I could use partial corner control or some other last slot substep to get even further in my last layer.

My options are: CPLS/2GLL, CLS/PLL, WV/PLL, SV/PLL, partial corner control/ZBLL, or 1x2x2 block/L5P.

I've also thought about intuitively placing edges while placing the last pair and doing L4C. I'm really not sure what to go with, but I'm leaning towards CPLS and 2GLL just because I want to try out the 2-gen and see if its really worth it. If I don't go with this, I may try partial corner control or using L5P algs with edges already oriented.
 
elrog said:
I personally prefer the F2L while paying attention to edge orientation over doing orientation first. I get edges oriented most of the time before I reach the last slot and anytime I don't, I solve it while placing the last pair. To increase my efficiency and lookahead, I was thinking of learning ZBF2L algorithms. You would need 86 of them if you did edge orientation with the second and third pair. Then I could use partial corner control or some other last slot substep to get even further in my last layer.

My options are: CPLS/2GLL, CLS/PLL, WV/PLL, SV/PLL, partial corner control/ZBLL, or 1x2x2 block/L5P.

I've also thought about intuitively placing edges while placing the last pair and doing L4C. I'm really not sure what to go with, but I'm leaning towards CPLS and 2GLL just because I want to try out the 2-gen and see if its really worth it. If I don't go with this, I may try partial corner control or using L5P algs with edges already oriented.
Click to expand...

Actually, I think you can go this route: VHLS - COLL - EPLL.

I'm not sure really, but this seems better actually, simpler than the options you mentioned above
 
cannon4747 said:
I avg about 19 secs (18ish on a good day) with CFOP, I know all the PLL's and anywhere from about half to two-thirds of the OLL's. I'm starting to look into more algorithmic approaches to some of the more annoying f2l cases to speed that up. What do yall think I should focus on learning next? I've been putting off learning the OLL's because I hate them they're stupid and I'm lazy but I think the time has finally come to do it... I find myself on streaks where I get sub-18 solves with the oll cases i know but 20 sec times on the ones i don't and I have to use 2-look. It's starting to bother me so should I just go ahead and do it?


H/X: M2' U M2' U2 M2' U M2'
CCW U: R U' R U R U R U' R' U' R2
CW U: R2 U R U R' U' R' U' R' U R'
Z: R' U' R2 U R U R' U' R U R U' R U' R' (U2)
CW A: (x') R' D R' U2 R D' R' U2 R2 (x)
CCW A: (y' x') R2 U2 R D R' U2 R D' R
E: (y x') R U' R' D R U R' u2 R' U R D R' U' R (x')
F: R' U' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' U R
Ga: (y) R2' u R' U R' U' R u' R2 (y') R' U R
Gb: R' U' R (y) R2 u R' U R U' R u' R2
Gc: (y) R2' u' R U' R U R' u R2 (y) R U' R'
Gd: (y2) R U R' (y') R2 u' R U' R' U R' u R2
J: R' U L' U2 R U' R' U2 R L
J: R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U'
N: R U R' U (R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R') U2 R U' R'
N: (z) (U' R D' R2' U R' D)2 (z')
R: R U2 R' U' R' F' R U2 R U2 R' F R U' R' U
R: R' U2 R U2 R' F R U R' U' R' F' R2' U'
T: R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F'
V: R' U R' U' (y x) R' F R' F' R2 U' R' U R U (x') -and/or- R U' L' U R' U' R U' L U R' U2 L' U2 L
Y: F R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R F'

What should I do now? continue just practicing, learn full olls, learn more f2l algs, or maybe you have better pll algs than the crap I've been using (especially nperms and e perm).
Click to expand...
I used to be in the same situation as you: I didn't like learning algorithms, especially all of the OLLs. Actually I'm still the same now - without learning that many more new OLLs I've come from averaging 18ish to now 13ish.

My favorite part of the solve is F2L, because it engages your brain the most. So I kept improving my look ahead, and that helped a lot (and it was fun for me). So I'd recommend that and learning how to solve some of the longer F2L cases more efficiently.

Getting all your PLLs under 2 seconds (execution) and OLLs under 1.5 seconds is also good. And for an E-perm algorithm, this one is good: x' (R U' R') D (R U R') D' (R U R') D ( R U' R') D'

If you want more specific advice/tips then a video of some of your solves would be helpful.

DaveyCow said:
so I have a friend that has been cubing about a year and a half (he's been cubing before I met him) and he averages about 40 (3x3). He's really discouraged since he's been cubing so long and still so slow. He uses intuitive F2L and knows all 21 PLLs. He practices all the time but says his averages stay around 39 or 40. I don't know what to tell him, any ideas what might be holding him up?
Click to expand...
I also agree with the look ahead. Starting work on my look ahead is what got me past that barrier and what has brought me to where I am now.
 
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