[Help Thread] CFOP Discussion

by that 4LLL time, that means approximately 3-5 seconds per step, that's a little too much, work on those algorithms a bit and maybe aim for 12 seconds max 4LLL, because each alg can certainly be done in at least 2 seconds. That and then improvement on F2L, which is always the bane of CFOP solvers will help tons as well
 
aznanimedude said:
by that 4LLL time, that means approximately 3-5 seconds per step, that's a little too much, work on those algorithms a bit and maybe aim for 12 seconds max 4LLL, because each alg can certainly be done in at least 2 seconds. That and then improvement on F2L, which is always the bane of CFOP solvers will help tons as well
Click to expand...

Okay, thanks!

Also, what perm would you recommend for the corner permutation in 4LLL: E/V/Y/Na/Nb?
And what alg would be great for the perm?
 
Well it depends on the cuber I suppose, but this is what 4-lookers normally learn. Certainly worked for me. Its a really fast alg once you get the rhythm of it, just remember to do the D moves with the ring finger properly, so first one is a regular D, but leave your ring finger curled so the nail is on LDB, then extend this finger to push the D face for the D'. This happens twice, and the rest is just simple fingertricks in between these move.
 
kunparekh18 said:
Also, what perm would you recommend for the corner permutation in 4LLL: E/V/Y/Na/Nb?
And what alg would be great for the perm?
Click to expand...

Popular Y-perm
(F R U' R' U') (R U R' F') (R U R' U') (R' F R F')

Alternate Y-perm
F (R' F R2 U') (R' U' R U R' F') (R U R' U' F')

Alternate E-perm (no x rotation)
(R' U' R') D' (R U' R') D (R U R') D' (R U R') D R2

N(a)-perm
(R U' L U2 R' U L')2 = z D R' U R2 D' R U' D R' U R2 D' R U' z'
(R U R' U) (R U R' F') (R U R' U') (R' F R2 U') (R' U2 R U' R')

N(b)-perm
(R' U L' U2 R U' L)2 = z D' R U' R2' D R' U D' R U' R2' D R' U z'
(R' U R' F) (R F' R U') (R' F' U F) (R U R' U' R)
 
speedpicker said:
Well it depends on the cuber I suppose, but this is what 4-lookers normally learn. Certainly worked for me. Its a really fast alg once you get the rhythm of it, just remember to do the D moves with the ring finger properly, so first one is a regular D, but leave your ring finger curled so the nail is on LDB, then extend this finger to push the D face for the D'. This happens twice, and the rest is just simple fingertricks in between these move.
Click to expand...

I honestly don't understand why everyone do this alg with that super awkward D' move.

I start the alg by holding both thumbs on the F-face, right index finger on the UFR sticker and the rest of the fingers on the back. Then, the rest is pretty stright forward. The only "un-normal" move is the U, done with the right thumb and index finger. The D' is simply done with the right ring finger.

Imo this is can be just as fast with less awkwardness.
I have not done the calculaton, but I think this is my PLL with highes turning speed.
 
Its honestly not super awkward, it requires very little practice to find the "sweet spot", it only feels awkward at first.

And doing x' then placing both hands on the new F face (formerly U) means regripping with two hands rather than one, which is inferior to regripping with one hand and performing the initial x R as more of a "regrip left hand then l" which flows more smoothly than "regrip left hand, regrip right, then R".

Keep trying with the ring nail push, its less difficult to learn than, say, a good U2 doubleflick in both hands.
 
I don't do the ring nail push, but I do D with my left ring finger and D' with my right. Easier the nail push :)

Brest's alg is awesome:

Alternate E-perm (no x rotation)
(R' U' R') D' (R U' R') D (R U R') D' (R U R') D R2
Click to expand...

This is what I'll be using.

On another note:

My updated splits

Cross: <5
F2L: 25
OLL: 4-5s
PLL: 6-7s

If I bring that PLL to just 4-5s, I'll achieve sub-40 in no time.

I also find that I do many, many cube rotations during F2L and unnecessary AUFs during OLL and PLL. Which is a good tutorial on how to avoid the above?
 
PianoCube said:
I honestly don't understand why everyone do this alg with that super awkward D' move.

I start the alg by holding both thumbs on the F-face, right index finger on the UFR sticker and the rest of the fingers on the back. Then, the rest is pretty stright forward. The only "un-normal" move is the U, done with the right thumb and index finger. The D' is simply done with the right ring finger.

Imo this is can be just as fast with less awkwardness.
I have not done the calculaton, but I think this is my PLL with highes turning speed.
Click to expand...

I think it's only awkward in the beginning. Later on it feels very natural, like any other algorithm. And you might know this already, but the algorithm (x'[(R U' R') D (R U R')] D' [(R U R') D (R U' R')] D') can be done in 0.8 seconds. But yeah, not all algorithms are for everyone so if you think yours is better for you than go for it! :)
 
I have seen videos of people doing in 0.7x, so I know it's fast.
I'm able to do it in 1.2 seconds "my way". The only reason I can't do it faster is because my general TPS isn't good enough, and that's not improved by a slightly different fingertrick.
 
You will save some time by not having to get into the grip you begin from. Actually you might save enough time to sneak in under the 1 second mark, or are you starting the timer with the regrip already made? If so then 1.2 seconds is not a realistic time, as you have to account for the time required to get into the appropriate grip such as would be the case in an actual solve or a PLL time attack.
Maybe the one Brest quoted would be better for you.

He who does not learn from his regrips is doomed to repeat them.
 
F2L - SLOW DOWN AND LOOK AHEAD, make sure you dont need to look at the pieces when solving, if you do have this problem: find the pieces, close your eyes and solve them, as you get more advanced try identifying two pairs and solving them both eyes closed, try solving to a metronome (after around 200 bpm this is less productive), learn to solve in all slots (Macky's site if you are stuck, I have written about this before: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/sh...l=1#post720540), make sure you have decent algs (8 moves or less) for each case, the only cases which should take more moves should be tricks that can be executed v. fast (RUR'U' * 3 for example), long winded intuitive solutions can usually be optimised by checking the wiki, if you struggle to spot pieces try finding a corner first, minimise cube rotations to 2 or 3 per solve, never do y2, look into edge orientation to reduce this, try forcing yourself to solve slowly without any cube rotations to figure out creative ways to deal with different cases (or check Macky's site), do lots of slow solving trying to minimise move count and keep continuously turning (U,U,U, doesn't count!), practice at a speed that is as fast as you can go without pausing, try not to learn crazy trick ways to solve cases if they interfere with lookahead, go through good cubers reconstructions continuously asking yourself what you would do here and figuring out why they have done what they have done, some people find it it helpful to practice f2l using a cube with no stickers on the U layer (if you are into this I advise getting a coloured plastic Guhong/Zhanchi and an unstickered black on and then you can make a cross only cube, and f2l cube or whatever variation you like by interchanging pieces), watch badmephistos F2L vids.

Check out the link in my sig for lots of useful.

Also look at this: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?813-F2L-Tips-and-Help-thread

And you may find this helpful for some of the basic (front right slot) cases:
 

Attachments

Last edited:
speedpicker said:
F2L - SLOW DOWN AND LOOK AHEAD, make sure you dont need to look at the pieces when solving, if you do have this problem: find the pieces, close your eyes and solve them, as you get more advanced try identifying two pairs and solving them both eyes closed, try solving to a metronome (after around 200 bpm this is less productive), learn to solve in all slots (Macky's site if you are stuck, I have written about this before: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/sh...l=1#post720540), make sure you have decent algs (8 moves or less) for each case, the only cases which should take more moves should be tricks that can be executed v. fast (RUR'U' * 3 for example), long winded intuitive solutions can usually be optimised by checking the wiki, if you struggle to spot pieces try finding a corner first, minimise cube rotations to 2 or 3 per solve, never do y2, look into edge orientation to reduce this, try forcing yourself to solve slowly without any cube rotations to figure out creative ways to deal with different cases (or check Macky's site), do lots of slow solving trying to minimise move count and keep continuously turning (U,U,U, doesn't count!), practice at a speed that is as fast as you can go without pausing, try not to learn crazy trick ways to solve cases if they interfere with lookahead, go through good cubers reconstructions continuously asking yourself what you would do here and figuring out why they have done what they have done, some people find it it helpful to practice f2l using a cube with no stickers on the U layer (if you are into this I advise getting a coloured plastic Guhong/Zhanchi and an unstickered black on and then you can make a cross only cube, and f2l cube or whatever variation you like by interchanging pieces), watch badmephistos F2L vids.

Check out the link in my sig for lots of useful.

Also look at this: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?813-F2L-Tips-and-Help-thread

And you may find this helpful for some of the basic (front right slot) cases:
Click to expand...

Exactly what I needed. Thanks!

Sent from my A75 using Tapatalk 2
 
I hope you people don't mind if I post this here.

My Progress With The Training Method Described in This Thread

Current average: 39 SECONDS

Step 1: COMPLETED

Time Expected: 2-4 Weeks
Completed in 1 week (January 1-7)
Net Time Saved: 1 week (judged by the minimum time it should take)

Step 2: COMPLETED

Time expected: 2-4 weeks
Completed in 2 weeks (January 8-22)
Net Time Saved: 1 week (no time saved from last week)

Step 3: Completed!

Time expected: 2-4 weeks
Completed in 3 weeks (January 22 - February 15)
Net Time Saved: 0 weeks, so I'm ready for step 4 with no extra time.

Proof: sub-40 ao50 twice

Primary Goal: Practice Intuitive F2L, fingertricks and lookahead for one more week and reduce average to sub-35
Secondary Goal: Complete Step 4 (learning all PLLs)
 
Last edited:
kunparekh18 said:
I hope you people don't mind if I post this here.

My Progress With The Training Method Described in This Thread

Current average: 41 SECONDS

Step 1: COMPLETED

Time Expected: 2-4 Weeks
Completed in 1 week (January 1-7)
Net Time Saved: 1 week (judged by the minimum time it should take)

Step 2: COMPLETED

Time expected: 2-4 weeks
Completed in 2 weeks (January 8-22)
Net Time Saved: 1 week (no time saved from last week)

Step 3: In Progress

Time expected: 2-4 weeks
Working on it for 3 weeks (January 22 - February 15)
Net Time Saved: (will add after completing Step 3)

Primary Goal: Complete Step 3 in 1 week to save 1 week off net time.
Secondary Goal: If above fails, then take an extra week, to make net time saved 0 weeks (thus making me normal speed).
Tertiary Goal: If above fails, quit cubing.
Click to expand...
Nice job! Keep up the good work!

I think I might update the original post sometime... a lot of the information is outdated. Hopefully it'lll help people more.
 
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