[Help Thread] CFOP Discussion

AJT17 said:
I may have done something wrong in the order I am learning, because I only have the G perms V perm and Ra perm left to learn.
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Order really doesn't matter all that much, just getting it done is what matters. Most people (including myself when I learned full PLL) leave G perms for last because 1. There are four of them and 2. The diagrams (which you shouldn't recog from anyway) are too confusing.
But it is probably more "optimal" to learn the most common first (those I stated in my original post), which is why I would recommend that to someone who is just starting PLL.
Also congrats on 15/21 algs, you're nearly there so keep pushing!
 
IsThatA4x4 said:
Order really doesn't matter all that much, just getting it done is what matters. Most people (including myself when I learned full PLL) leave G perms for last because 1. There are four of them and 2. The diagrams (which you shouldn't recog from anyway) are too confusing.
But it is probably more "optimal" to learn the most common first (those I stated in my original post), which is why I would recommend that to someone who is just starting PLL.
Also congrats on 15/21, you're nearly there so keep pushing!
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Thanks, I learned the A perms and the F perm after I had went to my first competition a month ago, and now I am currently going for the V perm, and I probably will learn some of the G perms next, possibly Ga and Gd for easier recognition, since the block is on the front.
 
How to get sub 20. I avg low 20s to 25s.
What I know
Cfop with full pll and 2 look oll
If you are willing to can you critique my solves. I am busy right now but I’m hoping to get to sub 20 and then sub 15 and then sub 10.
 
Pika the cuber said:
How to get sub 20. I avg low 20s to 25s.
What I know
Cfop with full pll and 2 look oll
If you are willing to can you critique my solves. I am busy right now but I’m hoping to get to sub 20 and then sub 15 and then sub 10.
Click to expand...
The best thing to do at this stage is just practice. Make sure you have good finger tricks and efficient F2L and you will be set
 
Hi, just wanted to ask if it's worth to learn this set of 167 algs for every possible case for 1 f2l pair? My goal is to be sub-9.

My global average is around 12 seconds, that is because I was lazy to learn full OLL before. As I am in the process of improving my skills, I would say learning full OLL would at least get me sub 11. However, my goal is to average sub 10 by the end of this year.

Since I'm talking about F2L specifically here, I would say I will hit OLL at around low 8 - high 9 seconds on average. My knowledge of F2L purely consists of intuive F2L. I followed the tutorials done by J Perm, linked below:

I would say out of all the three elements of cubing (lookahead, efficiency, TPS), I would say I am lacking a lot in TPS, followed by efficiency and then lookahead. I would say my lookahead in F2L is decent enough to a sub 10 cuber, but my TPS is horrible and I only turn at like 4 tps, or a borderline 5 on a good day. Thus, my query is if learning the alg sheet I linked above is a good idea to improve my TPS as some of the solutions I saw were things that I could never figure out using my current knowledge of F2L (which is just intuitive F2L). I terms of movecount, I will say it wont affect much as the solutions that I do intuitively match exactly as some of the common cases. I would kindly like to seek your advice on how I should proceed as to reach my goal if you were willing to do so. Thanks for your time.
 
yCArp said:
My global average is around 12 seconds, that is because I was lazy to learn full OLL before.
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This is what I am preaching for years. Everybody keeps saying that you shouldn't learn OLL until you are sub 17/15 instead of saying just learn it and then this happens! Somebody, who is way too fast to not know OLL, who is about to have a horrible time breaking old habits. Could have been avoided if the general consensus was to learn OLL after PLL
 
I’ve been cubing for about 10 years and I average around 10.5 to 11 seconds. My current goal is to get a sub 10 average in a comp that I’m attending in about a month and I was able to get an 8.85 PB Ao5 last night after getting super warmed up but I can’t consistently get under 10 for even an Ao12. I know about half of the OLLs and all but 4 PLLs but strangely I think my F2L is still proportionally the slowest part of my solve. Obviously I need to finish my last layer algs, but does anyone have any tips or strategies for making F2L faster? It seems like whenever I try to predict the first pair I will most of the time either run out of inspection time or lose track of my cross solution (unless it’s a really easy cross) and I have big pauses between pairs plus way too many cube rotations. I’m also pretty sure most of my f2l solutions are horribly inefficient but TPS kinda makes up for it. I feel like I could be competitively fast if my solves were smoother so if anyone has tips on f2l please let me know!
 
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zhanchi03 said:
I’ve been cubing for about 10 years and I average around 10.5 to 11 seconds. My current goal is to get a sub 10 average in a comp that I’m attending in about a month and I was able to get an 8.85 PB Ao5 last night after getting super warmed up but I can’t consistently get under 10 for even an Ao12. I know about half of the OLLs and 12/16 PLLs but strangely I think my F2L is still proportionally the slowest part of my solve. Obviously I need to finish my last layer algs, but does anyone have any tips or strategies for making F2L faster? It seems like whenever I try to predict the first pair I will most of the time either run out of inspection time or lose track of my cross solution (unless it’s a really easy cross) and I have big pauses between pairs plus way too many cube rotations. I’m also pretty sure most of my f2l solutions are horribly inefficient but TPS kinda makes up for it. I feel like I could be competitively fast if my solves were smoother so if anyone has tips on f2l please let me know!
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I swear I need to make a pastebin of F2L lookahead stuff, so I don't have to write something individually each time.
Anyway...
- Slow solves without a timer are very useful, where you just try to find efficient solutions to each F2L pair you come across. You should also be trying as hard as you can to incorporate the following things into these slow solves (and indeed timed solves when you're ready):
- Never look at what you're solving while you're solving it. You should be able to do each pair with your eyes closed, so that you can look around the cube for other pairs while solving a pair.
- One rotation max per pair. If you rotate more than once, try and find a better solution or look at J perm's F2L doc for a solution.
- Whenever you have to rotate, choose to insert the pair into the back. Inserting into the back removes a blind spot, pushing new info to the front of the cube where it's easy to see. If you ever end up with 2 front slots solved, your'e doing something wrong. This also goes for when predicting first pair, you may want to rotate before starting your solve so that the pair inserts to the back.

Alright now for stuff that applies more to you yourself:
- Don't worry if you can't reliably do cross + 1 in inspection yet. It takes time and practice, use unlimited inspection time and then slowly get faster until you can do it in under 15 seconds each time.
- If you haven't yet tried or are not dual CN (yellow/white colour neutral), I would recommend it. It allows you to choose a better cross solution, so makes predicting first pair a lot easier.
- I know you said that you'll finish your LLs, but I just can't get over the fact that you haven't even finished either set and are still sub-11. This should be really high in your priority list.

Alright well that's all for now, thanks for coming to F2L TED talk #6274638477
Seriously I have to make a pastebin doc on this
 
1652643348575.png

I'd accuse you of forging your identity, but if that's how many years you've lived, I apologize, it's a great number
 
Timona said:
Instead of learning ZZ, is it better to learn ZBLS and VHLS (not counting Mirrors and Backslots) if you're still going to use ZBLL? What're the pros and cons of this?
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Vhls isn't worth it compared to doing normal insert+oll+pll. If you really don't want to leave zz learn zbls, but I would recommend trying zz out. It's just as fast as cfop if you know zbll.
 
Timona said:
What I meant is, not learning ZZ. Just using ZBLS/VHLS (FR slot only, excluding mirrors) with ZBLL with CFOP, instead of learning ZZ. Is that feasible or just too much work?
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Ah, I misread the question. The zb method is 700 something algs if I recall correctly, and it puts up similar times to cfop. If you want the eoll experience, I would try ZZ out, but I don't the zb for cfop is worth it
 
I know most of cfop, cross (obviously), intuitive fl2, 2 step oll, 2 step pll + t ,y ,ja ,jb ,f perm and am learning plls fast

after pll, should i learn oll then a subset or stay with 2 step oll
 
Learn OLL. Trust me, as what Thom has said as a reply to one of my exact same queries, as well as what I have experienced, delaying your knowledge of Full OLL will only serve to hinder your improvement. I am not saying that full OLL dictates the biggest improvement in your times, but it has a significant impact.
 
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