[Help Thread] CFOP Discussion

[BossiniCuber]

Probably look ahead, My f2l is about 10 secs(but my cross sucks) and oll and pll are around 4 secs and I AVG aroung 23 secs

The most obvious thing is practice, you don't need to learn anything new to improve at that point. I was 40 secs then I just kept on practicing and after a week I was 35 secs

 

[Nilsibert]

Today I decided to do an average of 50 a little differently than usual. This is what came out of it:

number of times: 50/50
best time: 14.10
worst time: 25.60

current avg5: 21.04 (σ = 1.59)
best avg5: 15.97 (σ = 0.48)

current avg12: 19.82 (σ = 1.98)
best avg12: 17.54 (σ = 1.99)

session avg: 19.09 (σ = 2.96)
session mean: 19.12


I have to mention I started getting sub 20 averages about 2 or 3 weeks ago. What I did was practicing the classic "turn slow and look ahead". That got me 18-19 averages on occasion at first, and up until now I've been around 16-19.

What I did in this session are 3 ways of solving:

1. Turning slow enough for me to look ahead properly.
2. Turning (almost) as fast as I can, no look ahead.
3. Turning pretty fast, only kind of looking ahead. If I couldn't follow a pair, I at least followed one piece successfully and found the second one afterwards. Or I only half followed both pieces, recognized orientation, and had a vague idea where they are after finishing the previous pair. Another way was that I found an edge and knew it wouldn't change its position when I solve the previous pair, so I either followed the corner or found it afterwards.

Most of the solves using number 1 where in the 17-21s.
Using number 2, I got about 2 14s, about 5 15s but also a few over 20.
Using number 3, I got quite alot of 16s, 3 or 4 15s, and alot of 17-19s.

14.xx is rare for me, 15.xx I consider really good generally(also kind of rare). 16s are pretty good, anything above is standard.

Another weird phenomena is that when I turn fast, my last layer is alot faster. When I turn slow, it isn't as fast or as fluid.

I know that's kind of a lot of info, but I just wanted to ask how I should go about my future practice? Before I committed to slow turning, I could almost never get a single sub 20 solve. Now I can, quite easily.

Which path should I take? 1, 2, 3? 2 and 3 are MUCH more fun, that's for sure :/


I'd appreciate any help!

 

[matthewchan]

How does Feliks Zemdegs look ahead so fast? Pay attention to his hands and look at how fast he is!!!!!!

 

[TDM]

How does Feliks Zemdegs look ahead so fast?

Practice.

Pay attention to his hands and look at how fast he is!!!!!!

Wow, I did not notice that before. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[Bh13]

@nilsbert.
When I was at about your speed I did almost the same thing as you. If you keep practicing slow solves, you will get better averages but not as good singles, which you probably already knew. If I were you I would do mostly number 3, it will help your lookahead as well as your TPS. You should also try to do number one a lot as it is the fastest and best way to improve lookahead. I would stay away from number 2, since you won't get hardly any good lookahead practice at all.
Also, make sure you have a good cross and that your cross to first f2l transition is smooth. This is what I find the hardest to consistently do, but when I do I get great times.
As for your LL, the same thing happens to me. What I usually do is turn fairly slow (good lookahead speed) during the first three f2l pairs, and then speed up during the last pair, and then turn almost full speed for the OLL and of course the PLL. However, everybody is a little different, so you might have to do things a little different. If you dot know the best speeds for different steps, do a few really slow solves. The steps where you have the best/easiest/fastest lookahead are the steps where you can go faster, and the steps where you don't have too good lookahead are the steps where you should turn slower.
Hopefully this helps you out, most of my advice was based on the way I cube.

 

[pipkiksass]

Practice.

Wow, I did not notice that before. Thanks for pointing it out.

Apparently he turns a number of times, every second!!

 

[jeff081692]

How does Feliks Zemdegs look ahead so fast? Pay attention to his hands and look at how fast he is!!!!!!

Start by looking ahead slowly then increasing the speed just beyond what you can comfortably look ahead until you reach his speed. One of the main exercises that improves lookahead is solving 2 f2l cases blindfold. This builds up your prediction and tracking skills. Tracking without looking improves your tracking when looking and the more you do it the more you can predict where the second F2L case will end up without tracking. For someone like Feliks I would bet that many times if he saw 2 F2L cases at the same time he can see how one algorithm would affect the second case instantly because he knows how all his F2L algs affect the surrounding pieces. And when he can't instantly predict where the second case will be he has no problem tracking while turning at a very fast speed and at the very least during the last 3 moves of a pair he is working on he probably knows exactly where his next pair will end up. Knowledge of what lookahead means and years of practice is all it takes really. There are other things you can do to really force better prediction skills but just lots of practice with the goal of good lookahead in mind and turning faster than you can perfectly lookahead should be enough.

Also see deliberate practice in typing on page 17
http://www.legacyweb.rcm.ac.uk/cache/fl0020313.pdf

Feliks even said in his how to get faster videos to every once in a while try turning as fast as you can and see where that gets you.

 

[Nilsibert]

@nilsbert.
When I was at about your speed I did almost the same thing as you. If you keep practicing slow solves, you will get better averages but not as good singles, which you probably already knew. If I were you I would do mostly number 3, it will help your lookahead as well as your TPS. You should also try to do number one a lot as it is the fastest and best way to improve lookahead. I would stay away from number 2, since you won't get hardly any good lookahead practice at all.
Also, make sure you have a good cross and that your cross to first f2l transition is smooth. This is what I find the hardest to consistently do, but when I do I get great times.
As for your LL, the same thing happens to me. What I usually do is turn fairly slow (good lookahead speed) during the first three f2l pairs, and then speed up during the last pair, and then turn almost full speed for the OLL and of course the PLL. However, everybody is a little different, so you might have to do things a little different. If you dot know the best speeds for different steps, do a few really slow solves. The steps where you have the best/easiest/fastest lookahead are the steps where you can go faster, and the steps where you don't have too good lookahead are the steps where you should turn slower.
Hopefully this helps you out, most of my advice was based on the way I cube.

Thanks! What I've been doing mostly is that I turned slow when doing untimed practice solves. When timing, I sped up a little, like in number 3. What's really weird is that many times, it seems easier to track a pair when I speed up a little. Going slow it seems I have more problem predicting a pair, because I'm literally trying to follow 2 pieces with my eyes. When I speed up a bit, I notice more pieces while solving the previous pair, and it's easier to react to them than when I'm turning very slow. Although it requires a lot of concentration to avoid getting back into fast turning and no look ahead.

I do have to say that the cross is a huge weakness for me, let alone finding my first pair during inspection(can only do that in really really easy cases). I don't really know how to get better at cross, even if I practice it separately. I may have a really inefficient cross, but I can't seem to find better ways on my own, and there's not really any tips videos or thing like that that could help me, or at least not that I'm aware of.
Would it help if I did some cross walkthroughs on video, explaining what I would do, so people could critique it?
Solves with really easy crosses are mostly the ones that get me sub 16/sub 15 times.

 

[UB]

Thanks! What I've been doing mostly is that I turned slow when doing untimed practice solves. When timing, I sped up a little, like in number 3. What's really weird is that many times, it seems easier to track a pair when I speed up a little. Going slow it seems I have more problem predicting a pair, because I'm literally trying to follow 2 pieces with my eyes. When I speed up a bit, I notice more pieces while solving the previous pair, and it's easier to react to them than when I'm turning very slow. Although it requires a lot of concentration to avoid getting back into fast turning and no look ahead.

I do have to say that the cross is a huge weakness for me, let alone finding my first pair during inspection(can only do that in really really easy cases). I don't really know how to get better at cross, even if I practice it separately. I may have a really inefficient cross, but I can't seem to find better ways on my own, and there's not really any tips videos or thing like that that could help me, or at least not that I'm aware of.
Would it help if I did some cross walkthroughs on video, explaining what I would do, so people could critique it?
Solves with really easy crosses are mostly the ones that get me sub 16/sub 15 times.

Try solving the cross blind. If you do that, you can just look at the 4 cross pieces, and also track an f2l pair and solve it quickly.

How does Feliks Zemdegs look ahead so fast? Pay attention to his hands and look at how fast he is!!!!!!

It is said that from the age of 7 - 13 years, it is the peak time of what you learn. If you start solving the cube at 10 and practice these 2/3 years, you can get sub-10 easily. Because our brain, coordination etc, everything is developing, so just we need is practice and skills will come automatically. Feliks started cubing at around this age, so he has a advantage than me who started cubing last month. So practice is the key as well as at what age your start. You cannot get sub 10 at 60 years who has been practicing for last 20 years. Thats how it is...

 

[pipkiksass]

Try solving the cross blind. If you do that, you can just look at the 4 cross pieces, and also track an f2l pair and solve it quickly.


It is said that from the age of 7 - 13 years, it is the peak time of what you learn. If you start solving the cube at 10 and practice these 2/3 years, you can get sub-10 easily. Because our brain, coordination etc, everything is developing, so just we need is practice and skills will come automatically. Feliks started cubing at around this age, so he has a advantage than me who started cubing last month. So practice is the key as well as at what age your start. You cannot get sub 10 at 60 years who has been practicing for last 20 years. Thats how it is...

I'm 30. Can I get sub 10?

Spoiler

yes, but it will be harder for me than it was for Faz!

Edit: I'm 31... :fp!

 

[Evmc01]

I need help to get faster

Hi everyone. First off, I'm new here so sorry if this thread is not in the right place or something.

So I'm trying to get faster. I use CFOP by the way. I have only been speedcubing for a few weeks. I know the 2 look OLL and PLL and basic f2l. I currently average around 45-50 seconds (5 seconds for cross; 20-25 seconds for f2l; 15-20 seconds for OLL and PLL. My basic question is how should I get faster. I dont' know if I should focus on the F2l or learn the full OLL and PLL. My goal is to become sub-20 by the end of the summer. Is this manageable? Also, how do I become faster at f2l? I've been stuck at 20-25 seconds for a while. Thanks for any help.

 

[ChickenWrap]

This is very doable! Something that has helped me improve quickly with F2L was practice solving the cross, then solving each pair without looking. Meaning, find pair 1 and then close your eyes and solve it, then do the same for the other pairs. This will help you with lookahead later on. I use this technique and have a total cross+F2l of 13 seconds.

If you want to learn algs, learn PLL and then OLL, but you don't need to learn these to get sub-20. I am averaging nearly sub 20 with a rubiks brand cube and 2 look OLL and PLL!

 

[Evmc01]

Oh, and one more thing. I'm a white/yellow cross solver. But since I haven't been speedcubing very long, I probably could switch. Should I just stick with it or should I become color neutral? Thanks!

 

[mark49152]

I'm 30. Can I get sub 10?

Spoiler

yes, but it will be harder for me than it was for Faz!

Edit: I'm 31... :fp!

I'm 45. Can I get sub-15?

 

[TDM]

Oh, and one more thing. I'm a white/yellow cross solver. But since I haven't been speedcubing very long, I probably could switch. Should I just stick with it or should I become color neutral? Thanks!

Dual colour neutrality (being able to solve on two opposite sides) is very useful. If you can, you should be completely colour neutral; you should try it. However, Mats Valk (currently the 3x3 WR holder for single and second for average) is dual colour neutral (blue/green, but it doesn't make a difference which colours you use) and he is very fast. Imo, it's fine staying at white/yellow cross. It would be better to be fully CN, but it still isn't a bad thing to be what you are now.

 

[jeff081692]

Oh, and one more thing. I'm a white/yellow cross solver. But since I haven't been speedcubing very long, I probably could switch. Should I just stick with it or should I become color neutral? Thanks!

Do CN because if you do CN but find you don't like it for some reason then you can always go back to dual CN. But if you keep practicing with dual CN you might regret not being CN as it's harder to switch the more you practice. If you feel you won't regret not doing CN then stick with what you are doing.

 

[Jaycee]

I average about 16.5. I just did an Ao25 of F2l and got 10.42. After that I did an Ao25 of LL and got 5.24 (15.66. I'm sure there's some reason it's nearly a second off from my average. Maybe because there were quite a few easy LLs.)

If I want to drop my average to 14.5, which should I work on more: F2L or LL?

 

[jeff081692]

I average about 16.5. I just did an Ao25 of F2l and got 10.42. After that I did an Ao25 of LL and got 5.24 (15.66. I'm sure there's some reason it's nearly a second off from my average. Maybe because there were quite a few easy LLs.)

If I want to drop my average to 14.5, which should I work on more: F2L or LL?

You have much more room to improve in F2L instead of LL. The very best cubers have about 4-5 second F2L and 2-3 second LL. So your LL is pretty good but still needs work. But the biggest difference by far is in F2L.

Although you could also just improve your LL and still get 14.5 with a 10 second F2L you would have better improvement if you keep F2L as one of your main priorities since it is a majority of a solve. I didn't really take this advice and just focused on LL until I realized that no matter how good I got at last layer if my F2L was over 10 seconds I was not going to meet my goals.

And the reason that your individual averages of the steps is faster is because that extra second is most likely recognition between the transitions from F2L to LL.

 

[mark49152]

Analysis elsewhere on the forum (search "systematic") concluded that for a decent size sample of fast cubers' solves the average split was 62% F2L 38% LL. For 14.5 that means 9 second F2L.

 

[DaveyCow]

I'm 30. Can I get sub 10?

This.....

I'm 45. Can I get sub-15?

...and this.....

I'm 38... can I even get sub 25?