Blindsolving Discussion and Help

[KYLOL]

Hey I use Pochman/M2 because I am a total beginner at blinfold solves and I was wondering when you memorize the corners using the method shown in Eric Limeback's tutorial what do you do if the corner cycle type thing you are memorizing has the actual corner that goes in the place that you are using to cycle the corners around. not sure if I made sense there? If not do this scramble on a solved cube (yes I know it is a long one) (R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R) D (R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R) D' (R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R) Now I know you would have to randomly place any other corner in there that is already unsolved but when memorizing I am not sure how to memorize this I just have no clue my mind can't follow I guess? somebody help me otherwise I am going to just make a thread?

Setup - L U' R U L' D
(R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R)
Undo Setup - D' L U' R' U L'

 

[DYGH.Tjen]

@Eric I want one too! I really need pure comms practice.

Question: bh corners (URB LFD RFD) why doesnt F' [U', B2 D2 B2] F work? Im doing the insertion and interchange correctly, right? Can someone tell me the exact conditions for an interchange and the insertion? Im confused. Also, for (URB RFU DLB), why not L2 F' L2 B2 L2 F L2 B2? Whats the error?

Also, how to recognise columns?

Can all columns be either an A9 or cyclic shift?

Happy cubing, tjen

 

[MovingOnUp]

Setup - L U' R U L' D
(R U' R' U' R U R' F' R U R' U' R' F R)
Undo Setup - D' L U' R' U L'

lol thanks I'm still not sure I understand how to do this though. Going to try working it out on paper first before I try actual thing again

 

[KYLOL]

lol thanks I'm still not sure I understand how to do this though. Going to try working it out on paper first before I try actual thing again

I moved one of the unsolved corners to the buffer position without disturbing your UB and UL edges. To do this, you just need one corner in the R layer ( which it is already), so I did L U' to bring the buffer piece into the R layer. Then I did an R move to replace the buffer piece with your unsolved corner. I then undid my setup moves for this step by doing U L' which places your unsolved corner where your buffer piece was. Then I did a D move to place the other unsolved corner to your normal destination position. I did Y-perm to swap the unsolved corner ( which is now where your normal buffer would be ) to the other unsolved corner at RFD, and UB/UL edges are also swapped. Essentially you are replacing your buffer piece with an unsolved corner, and then solving normally, then replacing the buffer piece to its original position. The undo-setup is self explanatory, I would assume. Hope that helps!

 

[Marcell]

@DYGH.Tjen:
Your insertations are wrong. Insertations work like this: you 'open' a layer, 'insert' something in it and then 'close' it again so that only that one piece has changed in that layer. These 'open' and 'close' turns cannot be double turns because in that case you would change more than one piece with this operation.
All columns can be set up into an A9 or a cyclic shift.
You should read byu's BH corner tutorial: http://www.speedsolving.com/forum/showthread.php?12268-BH-Tutorial

Oh I see what you're trying to do there. Break it down: L2 F' L2 supposedly inserts RFU into DLB, B2 is the interchange. Now the problem is what I wrote: Your insertation doesn't only effect DLB but also the BR and BUL pieces, that's why it doesn't work. You'll find that in this case there's no correct 3-move insertation.There's one with 5 moves though - you can either use that, or set up to an A9 or cyclic shift.

 

[minime12358]

About the program to practice commutators, just add something like this:

printMethod((char)(Math.random()*26 +65) + (char)(Math.random()*26+65));
:tu I love one line code. Then again, making the class and main method along with a pause and while loop would take more. If you arent a program, look up how to run a .java program in commmand prompt, open a notepad, type the code that follows after the instructions, save it as Name.java, and run.

public class Name
{
public static void main(String[] args)
{
Scanner input = new Scanner(System.in);
System.out.println(((char)(Math.random()*26 +65) + (char)(Math.random()*26+65) + "\n");
System.out.println(input.next().toLowerCase().contains("y")?"Great":"Aww");
}
}

 

[riffz]

This question is asked so often that I think this forum would benefit greatly if someone would write up a stickied post explaining how to break into new cycles. Any takers?

 

[minime12358]

I agree so much. I was actually thinking of this the other day. We need to basically have the first post edited with info like:

How do I do blind? Learn Old Pochman

What happens when the buffer is solved? Break into a new cycle (swap with a random unsolved piece)

What is the fastest method? BH incorperated into Freestyle

What is the fastest memo style? Visual

How do I know which piece to go in blind? Create a letter scheme, one letter for each sticker of a corner (A-X) and one for each sticker of an edge (A-X).

How should I start memorizing for the first time? Possibly make words to represent one or two letters, or look at (Wiki page)

How do I solve a (Insert Large Cube here) blind? -Link-

Where is the BH edge tutorial: Link

Where is the BH corner tutorial: Link

What is the world record? 30.90 set by Alejandro (I forget the last name)

Where is a good tutorial for Old Pochman? (Possibly bad mephisto's tutorial, etc)

What do you do if you do an odd number of M2s in the M2 method? Do parity (Insert Parity algorithm here)

Theres a basic template, I dont have time right now to insert the links, but we do need to put this on the front, as these questions are asked a lot.

 

[Phlippieskezer]

Hello. I've never blindsolved before, but it really catches my fancy, so I have two (extremely nooby) questions (that I couldn't find searching the forum):

Is THIS an okay method for beginner blindsolving? I found it a while back and was playing around with the method, but when I came to these forums no one linked to it... This IS Classic Pochman, right (that's what I see constantly suggested)? I've been fiddling around with the method described in that link for a few days now. Just making sure if that's a good method; sorry for my possible ignorance.

Also, one thing that I'm having trouble understand is the memory methods. Is there a method that would be recommended specifically for multi-blindsolving? The above post states the fastest memo style is Visual, but what's the best for multi? That's the area that most interests me currently (though I should first focus on solving ONE cube blindfolded >.<). Memorizing is currently what I'm struggling most with.

Again, sorry for my "noobiness," but I'd greatly appreciate it if you can forgive me for that... And humour my questions by answering them. P)

P.S. A FAQ would be extremely helpful for noobs like me!

 

[minime12358]

yep! Thats old pochman for you. A hint though- Dont do the memory method that he describes, I mean no disrespect to Stephan, but you are pretty much doubling the amount of memo.

So, to start, there are two main methods for memo for multi bld. Remember how I mentioned to make words for each pair of letters? Basically, you are going to go through all of the possible pairs (AA-XX) and make an object for it, and study it for a very long time. Next, you would use the roman rooms method, or the linked lists method. As you get your letters, and furthermore your objects, for the roman room method, you:
1.Take a path you know very well; a path from your childhood, a walk to school etc. or easier to explain, a walk through multiple rooms of your house
2. Along this path, place images of the objects along the path (maybe a few in each room)
3. As you are solving, walk the path again and you will review the images as you go

For the linked lists method (Note this may be easier for begginers, but it is better in long term to switch to roman rooms)
Take objects, and String them together. For instance, say you would have to remember Robot, Apartment building, Tree, Squid, FencePost, Pants, hospital, Eagle
You might think "An apartment building falls on a robot, crushing it. Out of the rubble grows a tree. A squid pops out of the tree, impaling it self on a fencepost. The fencepost, you now notice, is wearing pants. The pants catch on fire, so they have to go to the hospital. In the hospital, an eagle starts to gnaw on the pants"
It is important to not continue using an object. For instance, dont bring the tree with the squid to the fencepost, just bring the squid.

Sorry if the roman rooms method is unclear, I dont use it yet, I still use linkedlists.

Please note though that multiblind is much more difficult than a regular blind solve! Note how many people have done a regular blind solve, then note how many people have done 3+ multibld. Remember that the methods describe are for the purpose of large memorization. Yes, you can use linkedlists for a single solve, however creating a LPL takes a long time.

 

[QCcuber4]

@ Philipies

Pochmann is good, but if you want to try something else you can also check out Macky's website : Cubefreak.net

Hes got very well explained tutorials for 3OP and M2/R2, thats where I started my bld cubing experience.

 

[Phlippieskezer]

@minime12358: That helped more than you know. I just need to study the geography of my cube (what letter to associate with each letter, etc.) and maybe read up a bit more on the memory methods. Basically, all I needed was the name for the memory method, and then I could go and research on it myself (exactly what I did). So, thank you. The original amount of memory methods overwhelmed me and I didn't know where to start (hence, I posted this). I think I more-or-less have the method down, though. Just need to work on memory.

@QCcuber4: Thanks! I bookmarked that website. For now, I think I'll stick to Old Pochmann, but I'll probably switch over to one of the others eventually (like I said, I just got Pochmann down and there are too many algorithms to learn there immediately, especially when I'm trying to focus on my memorisation right now. I'll consider Pochmann as my "beginner solution" ). Thank you, though. I'll use it for future reference.

Another question that's probably a bit nooby, but I'm having some trouble understanding, and it generally shouldn't hurt to make 100% sure:
So, let me just get this straight: When you memorize with letters... Let's use an example: AI.
What exactly does 'AI' mean in terms of what to do with the cube? The buffer piece's top sticker needs to go to position A and and once that's switched, the new piece needs to go to position I (So, basically you're using one image to memorise the solve for two cubies)? Is that right? If so, I think I'm good to go!

[EDIT]: Nevermind on the above question. I just tested it in a blind solve for the first 6 edges (too frightened to challenge myself for everything yet). It worked fine, so I think I'm probably right.

[EDITx2]: This question doesn't deserve another post, but if someone notices it... How many letters does it generally take to solve the edges (6 - 8?)? Corners?

 

[minime12358]

I am glad that I helped!

As to your question, Yep! AI means that you swap buffer with A, then buffer(Which is the piece that was at A) with I.

Also, along with the Old Pochman->3Op-> M2. I learned BH right after I learned Old pochman. It really is not a difficult thing to learn. Essentialy, BH is a method where for every letter pair (AB->XW) you have an algorithm to solve it htat is between 8-12 moves. You may think this is crazy because there would be over 500 algorithms, however it is all intuitive, and you get a really good feel for the cube.

Also, when I started learning my "Geography of the cube," I did it like this: For each side, there are 4 stickers. So what I did, was I learned Each top left corner sticker. That was fairly easy, those were just A, E, I, M, Q, U. You then can count out each letter from those, and you start to get a really good feel for each and every letter. All though, for some reason, you get a strange "affection" for certain letters (For instance, I Like F,L,D, R, S, and P for some reason)

Also, just some general hints for BLD:

Be consistent. A lot of set ups have D s in them, so pick either d or D to use. (It is just a personal preference)
Generally edge setups for old pochman take the form of
A. D() L()
B. D() M()
C. L() D() L() (For LU edge)
And Corner setups for old pochman take the form of
A. F() R() (Get to R face, rotate to helper)
B. F() D() (Get to D face, rotate to helper)
C. D() F() (Get to F face, rotate to helper)
D. R() D() (Use for pieces such as UBR, which is R D'
E. D() R() (Again, get to R face, rotate to helper)
I believe that is all. note that the () s represent a ' 2 or a regular turn. It could also mean an absence of a turn.
You generally dont have to differntiate similar sounding letters in a single solve (when you are beggining) as you will often remember the difference between a Q and a K, it will seem strange to do the wrong one.
Try to start doing some visual. If you arent planning on doing blind in a competition very soon, do not assign letters to your corners. Instead, tap them in the order that they go. This will be very very difficult at first, however you will get better as you go. This is the base line of visual memo. Eventually, you will be able to get the corners down really well, and switch to doing edges. Eventually, your entire solve will be done without letters. While this is almost impossible to do a full multi bld (what am I kidding, it is impossible to do a bunch of cubes like this), You can do the last cube with visual.

Edit: I figured you would also like this link, it might be good for begginers. http://www.speedcubing.com/chris/memo-words.html
Also for the LPL, you can heavily modify http://www.speedcubing.com/chris/memo-images.html to suit your liking. Chris is awesome at blind, you should check out the stuff he has.

 

[minime12358]

To your edit: On the worst case, super flip, if you did direct memorization, it would be 11*2 letters, 22. The best case would obviously be 0. If you had everything in a single cycle, it would be 11. If you said that the average solve had one piece solved with two cycles, it would be 11 letters.

Corners, again we could say the same thing. Worst case, two solved double sunes would be 7*2 letters, 14. Best case is 0. Everything in a single cycle would be 7. And again, one piece solved and two cycles would be 7.

 

[QCcuber4]

would be 7*2 letters, 14.

WOuldn't it be 7*3?

 

[minime12358]

WOuldn't it be 7*3?

No, I dont believe so. The way I came up with 7*2 is that for each corner, you would have one letter to send it to the buffer position, and one to send it back solved. The 8th corner solves itself. It is basically 7 cycles of length 2. If you had 7 cycles of length 3, then you would have to have 7*2 corners. (The way I get that number is that for k cycles of n length, there are kn-k unsolved pieces)

Edit: Note that that is probably even too much, as most people would just remember the corner orientation if it was something that easy. They would also most likely use RDR'D' etc to solve it. That would be one sexy solve. (Ahh cubing humor, you gotta love it)

 

[ilikecubing]

i need an F perm flip algorithm

 

[Sakarie]

i need an F perm flip algorithm

Be more specific or just use Cube Explorer yourself.

 

[ilikecubing]

Be more specific or just use Cube Explorer yourself.

Sorry for not being specific,i was in a hurry.just like there is a T perm flip which interchanges the position of UFR and UBR corners and flips+Interchange UR and UL edges

I want and alg which flips+interchange UF and UB edges and interchanges the position of UFR and UBR corners.

I can simply do M2 D S2 Tperm Flip S2 D' M2

Just wanted to know if there is something better

 

[amostay2004]

Sorry for not being specific,i was in a hurry.just like there is a T perm flip which interchanges the position of UFR and UBR corners and flips+Interchange UR and UL edges

I want and alg which flips+interchange UF and UB edges and interchanges the position of UFR and UBR corners.

I can simply do M2 D S2 Tperm Flip S2 D' M2

Just wanted to know if there is something better

R' U' F' T perm F U R is an F perm. I'll let you figure out the rest