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The New Method / Substep / Concept Idea Thread

sorry for double post, but I have a random Idea I've been playing with for 4x4. this can be applied to Yau, Hoya, even Meyer.
So It is a way to avoid parity.
So the basic Idea is to not solve 2 edges, then executing an L2E at the end of the solve to fix parity at the same time.
in practice, this becomes really only a good idea if you get 3-2-3 edge pairing and your last cycle is only 2 edges.
what you do is Just solve the cue with 2 edges unpaired, and then use setups to L2E to fix them at the end. It is just a totally random Idea, and I doubt it has any merit whatsoever. but please, tell me what you think. I know all the L2E algs from Lewis already, so this was pretty easy for me to do.
 
Shiv3r said:
So about the VOP EG-ish method(I suggest changing the name tbh, to like SOP), I don't know the average movecount for the V, but whenever I try making a v the average movecount is something like 1.2 or something like that. I think the highest movecount for a V may be 3 moves, however even then looking ahead into orientation will be incredibly easy, and by recognizing the VOP-EG Permutation set you have in inspection, the only 3 pieces you need to look at are in the top layer.

so basically, this is a less algorithm intensive 2.1 look method, and EG is like a 1.5-look method. if we get the algs generated, I will definitely start learning this method.

EDIT: looks like the permutation algs are done, who wants to help with orientation algs?
Click to expand...
I can always get a V made in 2 moves or less (I'm color neutral so that may be why) Haven't tested it in inspection time, but I can almost always lookahead into orientation while knowing my permutation case then recog for permutation is super easy. So if you get really good with it it's a 2 look method. Some of the algs are long but the short nature of the first step should give you an average movecount of ~14-15, barely over that of EG (12.5) and with much less algs. Perfect for me bc I don't care enough about 2x2 to put a lot of time into it, but still want to be decently fast. I think you could get sub 3 with it relatively easily. I think the three of us should discuss a name, I'll start a chat.
 
Shiv3r said:
sorry for double post, but I have a random Idea I've been playing with for 4x4. this can be applied to Yau, Hoya, even Meyer.
So It is a way to avoid parity.
So the basic Idea is to not solve 2 edges, then executing an L2E at the end of the solve to fix parity at the same time.
in practice, this becomes really only a good idea if you get 3-2-3 edge pairing and your last cycle is only 2 edges.
what you do is Just solve the cue with 2 edges unpaired, and then use setups to L2E to fix them at the end. It is just a totally random Idea, and I doubt it has any merit whatsoever. but please, tell me what you think. I know all the L2E algs from Lewis already, so this was pretty easy for me to do.
Click to expand...
ZZ based methods will benefit and so will CFOP based if people can recognize parity early enough. And I think it should be used interchangeably w/ OP+CMLL for Meyer (more options=better efficiency)
 
@Neuro UGHH I had the idea for VOP EG for so long, and I thought it was a terrible idea so I never said anything about it. I really really wish I had mentioned something ;(

@Aerma that's a pretty decent way of doing LS+LL, I've thought about that before, you could do VOP L5C and then L5E in one look and probably get pretty fast, but L5E with RF unsolved would need to be looked into more (it might have some nasty recog)
 
I came up with a blockbuilding-oriented 3x3 method, but it may only be good for people who like having to think a lot during solves:
1) solve 2x2x2 block in back-right-bottom + FL edge
2) solve two 2x2x1 blocks: one in the front-right-bottom and one in the top-back-left.
3) last 9 pieces

I'm not sure what the best way to go about doing L9P would be, one idea would be to solve FDL corner and FR edge and do something from there, but I don't know.
Here's an example solve up to L9P:

U2 R2 D2 B2 U2 B' U2 F' U2 R2 F2 U R' D U F2 R D U' F D (random scramble from CSTimer)
1) x2 L2 U D2 F' B U F (7 moves)
2)
front-right-bottom block: R U2 R' B U B' (6 moves)
top-back-left block: U R U B U B' U' R' (8 moves)

A possible approach to L9P would be to do R' F' R F to solve the FDL corner and F' U F U' to solve the FR edge, but I'm not sure what you could do from there. But the first 2 steps in this solve were only 21 moves total, so I think that's pretty good.
 
Thermex said:
@Neuro UGHH I had the idea for VOP EG for so long, and I thought it was a terrible idea so I never said anything about it. I really really wish I had mentioned something ;(
Click to expand...
Well as soon as I heard of ZZ-CT i thought about transposing it to 2x2. But then I discovered VOP so I didn't look any further into progressing it b/c I didn't think of adding EG. But then Sue came up with it and tbh it's pretty genius. Good ideas that look bad happen relatively often so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
@Neuro Oh I wish I could take some credit for this idea.... i discovered VOP a long long time ago and just thought it was a random garbage method.... but then I found EG-VOP and thought "hey, this might be decent!". But once me and Efattah came up with TEG I just thought there was no point in pursuing it and never posted about it again. A couple weeks later Sue starts posting about it and I started realizing it's actually a really good method ;(
Well... I still want to somehow contribute to it even if I'm not considered the creator of it... are there any algs I could help generate for EG-VOP that have not been generated yet?
 
Last edited:
Thermex said:
@Neuro Oh I wish I could take some credit for this idea.... i discovered VOP a long long time ago and just thought it was a random garbage method.... but then I fonof EG-VOP and thought "hey, this might be decent!". But once me and Efattah came up with TEG I just thought there was no point in pursuing it and never posted about it again. A couple weeks later someone posts about it and I started realizing it's actually a really good method ;(
Well... I still want to somehow contribute to it even if I'm not considered the creator of it... are there any algs I could help generate for the method that have not been generated yet?
Click to expand...
A lot of the orientation algs haven't been found yet. We need orientation algs like Guimond but that preserve the V.
 
@Shiv3r are you guys looking for algs that preserve the permutation of the V? Because it you are, you can just use the regular VOP orientation algs but if you're not I could generate some.
 
Hi all,
I'd just like to let everyone know that something personal has come up recently and I will be unable to make any sort of progress in any methods. I will no longer be replying to PMs either or to any of the threads. I should be back soon :)
 
Thermex said:
@Neuro Oh I wish I could take some credit for this idea.... i discovered VOP a long long time ago and just thought it was a random garbage method.... but then I fonof EG-VOP and thought "hey, this might be decent!". But once me and Efattah came up with TEG I just thought there was no point in pursuing it and never posted about it again. A couple weeks later Sue starts posting about it and I started realizing it's actually a really good method ;(
Well... I still want to somehow contribute to it even if I'm not considered the creator of it... are there any algs I could help generate for EG-VOP that have not been generated yet?
Click to expand...
Welcome to my life.

Though I don't often think that what I dismiss will end up any good.
 
Back in my old thread people are just being dicks arguing that the methods are already below 5LS because of their own definition of a look or whatever. Let us not talk about what a look mean and this this is what I mean by 1LLSLL: Think 1LLLL vs 2LLLL.

We did it! We have achieved 1LLLL by combining OLL and PLL together to form 1LLLL! But it was ~4k algs long so ZZ and Bruchem reduced it to ~700 algs and took it further to reduce it to 493 algs! From 4k to 493 is alot! Hell we got even further by doing phasing/CP we reduced to around 200+ algs(depends whether you use phasing or CP)! 4Humphrey got it to 200 algs! Imagine how far we have gone.

Chris Chan did make a LL skip method but the LSLL is still 2 looks. TSLE + TTLL. ZBLL is also 2LLSLL: F2L+1LLLL.

Remember the OP in CFOP? OLL+PLL got turn into ZBLL(Not really but you know I mean) Look at TSLE and TTLL, they're like OP now we need to combine those to make a 1LLSLL.

There are 423 possible permutations of LSLL and we have 3*3 x 2*4 orientations of LSLL. We need to reduce this number!

Here is one method I thought of.
Let us do ZZ and finish 1 block. Put either the Cross or F2L edge in. Finish the square while orienting all the corner. The last step is PLSLL( Permutation of the Last Layer and Last slot). Since everything is oriented the cases drop down to 401 LSLL cases + 21 PLLs but to do the first step has too many algs. Since we have one more corner to orient there are more cases than ZZ-c. We did do the LSLL in one look yah but was it efficient? Is it better than ZBLL even if we 3Look the first step to make it easy?

Insert an edge and solve a pseudo pair so we finish the square using ZZ-c but is it efficient? Got a better method?

TL;DR
We are not doing 5LS anymore. Just make a method that solves the LSLL in one look.
Think: 1LLLL vs 2LLLL so do not a say a method is already whatever looks. Predicting PLL while solving OLL is inefficient. Do not say predict the LL while doing LS so it is one look.

edit:
I said LSLL so if you say Roux or something I am talking about a method where it has LSLL.
Edit: I did it. I made a 1LLSLL Method. Whether you're interested or just want to see how it works go to find the post 1LLSLL System that has 500 less algs than 1LLL. It's not. I've fixed my math it's 4339 algs.
 
Update on movecount for making the V in EG-VOP (still not an official name for it :P)

I've done around 100 solves to test the movecount of the V and the average was 1.06 or something. I did discover that 3 move V's are actually a possibility. However, 1 move is the most common, taking ~90% of the solves. 2 moves is next highest, probably ~5%, and 0 moves is actually more common than a 3 move V, where 0 moves is ~3.5% and 3 is the least common, ~1.5%.

Note that my test was performed with full color neutrality, so it will probably change if you keep 1 color. But honestly, color neutrality is pretty easy with the method and 2x2 in general so I don't think we need to do non-CN tests.
 
The closest I Ever got was M-CELL or Immune System but no one ever really uses that term and the techique was similar to Hawaiian Kociemba or Hexagonal Fransisco though it predated both.

1) Solve F2L without one cross edge or D layer corner (I detail many mays of doing this in the original post)
2) Recognise L5E and L5C cases.
3) execute both one after the other with no recog pause.
It has a huge number of algs (more than ZBLL) though less than if it was all one alg.

There are alternatives to reduce it depending on how much you control such as EO, CO CP etc but essentially to get it down to a reasonable number of algs you start controlling so much the benefit is minimal. What you get to after a while of improving while trying to control as little as you can is either SSC, Roux, ZZ-CT (which it actually predates) or someting like that. In addition, many corner algs which leave edges intact can suck if they affect more than a 3 cycle or 2 2 swap.

Thus unless you can find some way of 2 algs at once for corners (which would bump up the movecount), this method is only viable for those who memorise many many algs (like approaching jabari level).

TL;DR, the only way to really make this viable with current techique is a 2+ alg, 1 look system and really stretching the definition of a look and LSLL. So find some new techniques.
 
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