[Help Thread] F2L Discussion and Help

TDM said:
Learn 2-look OLL and 2-look PLL before F2L. Also, learn F2L intuitively, not using algorithms. And finally, search before making new threads. A lot of the information you need is already on the forums/wiki/other places on the internet.
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Thanks. I will for sure try OLL and PLL.
 
A lot of people look for a corner in the top layer then find the matching edge so nothing to worry about there. You just need more experience solving really. The more you practice the faster you will be at locating the corresponding edge. There are other things in F2L to also work on I'm sure but if the main problem right now is spending a lot of time looking for pieces then I would just say keep practicing for now.
 
When I was your speed solving all day was a magic bullet as I was beating personal bests left and right. One thing I just came up with you can try if you want to improve recognition without solving is after completing the cross stop turning and try to locate all 4 corner edge pairs without doing any rotations (it's ok to tilt the cube so you can see the back pieces but keep the orientation of the cube relatively stable. You can try timing it if you want but that is probably the most specific way to practice finding pairs but I would still recommend spending most time solving at your speed as that weakness will naturally go away the more time you spend with a cube.

Edit: just tried this exercise and I get about 3-4 seconds to find all 4 pairs.
 
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Thanks. I'll give that a go. New PBs are increasingly hard to come by but my averages are creeping down very slowly. Still enjoying it though and I'm buying cubes for all the kids in the family who I can get to take one.
 
Hello, I recently picked up a rubik's cube after not cubing for 6 or 7 years (used to be consistently sub 1:00 with the beginner's method), and I decided to start learning CFOP. My current average of 12 is 1:12 and I know full PLL and 2LOLL. My Cross and F2L times are absolutely horrible. I solve the cross in 7-12 seconds, and then take another 30-45 seconds to finish my F2L. My LL is sitting around 10-15 seconds. I've been practicing my F2L and cross, but no matter what I try my times for them do not seem to be improving (I solve F2L intuitively). Should I try learning F2L based on algorithms instead? Also I have a lot of difficulty finding F2L pairs, and I would estimate that about half to two thirds of my Cross and F2L times are spent looking for what I need to do vs. actually moving the cube. Thank you ahead of time for any advice.
 
newtonbase said:
How do you guys find your pairs in F2L. I am awful at it. I tend to find a corner on the top layer then spend an age looking for the matching edge. I'm averaging about 1:12 with a PB of 47s but would love to get to sub 30s. I've been cubing for nearly 7 weeks and F2L is by far my biggest weakness (unless you could age and stiff fingers).
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Seven weeks is no time at all (I've been cubing for years and I'm barely sub-30 so I feel your pain to the power of three ("cubed" - gettit?)

Folk will tell you that sub-30 is easy without look ahead but clearly not for some. Some things to "know" about F2L (not things to "think about during F2L" - there's not enough time to be musing about F2L during a solve!)

  • there's only 8 pieces that you're interested in
  • that's 50% of what's left to solve
  • it's all there right in front of you!
  • mentally filter out any last-layer pieces - for me that's yellow so I just ignore all yellow
  • it may be more useful to think of it as focusing on, or "only seeing", the non-last-layer pieces
  • choose to "see-first" edges or corners: I think the edges are easier to spot for me but the corners have the cross colour so they might be easier to spot for others
  • when something neat happens during F2L - try to remember what happened and maybe it can be forced when the opportunity comes up again

I'm not really sure how F2L pairs are found when at full speed - I guess it's largely subconscious for the well-practiced. If I were to try to describe it programmatically, then a process for simple look-ahead emerges: -

  • for the first F2L pair it may be easier to just look at the top layer, ignoring just for now, the corners and edges "trapped" in F2L slots
  • (this really should be done during the cross)
  • (no rotations are necessary: if a pair is not immediately obvious "waggle" the cube to see all the faces of the entire top layer)
  • if there's a corner and edge pair in the top layer (not necessarily connected) then it is a prime candidate.
  • here you can choose to just solve this as the first pair or swap it with another candidate that better suits your ever-expanding bag of F2L tricks
  • if there isn't a candidate pair in the top layer (what are the odds?) or if the first candidate pair is unfavourable in some way then the front two slots (immediately visible) should have a corner or pair that can be brought up into the top layer in a nice way
  • since there are less pieces to choose from, the second candidate pair may involve pieces from the front two slots
  • the second pair may be less favourable but at least you will have spotted it! This would now be the prime candidate for the second F2L pair!
  • now solve the first pair (as automatically as possible) whilst watching what happens for the second pair -- the solution for the second pair is likely to change!
  • before solving the second pair you really should choose the 3rd pair
  • if you get lucky you can solve the first pair in one of the back slots which brings out more candidates for the 3rd pair
  • the 4th pair cannot be chosen but must be spotted anyway to provide a smooth transition from the 3rd to the 4th solves
  • whilst solving the 4th pair you definitely want to do partial edge control to skip an annoying extra step unless you know full OLL

This is just me rambling as I have a spare few minutes and I'm trying to formalise a process for teaching. It's likely that somebody else has posted something better -- I don't "read" the forum! I hope it helps some people.
 
newtonbase said:
I've had a go at that technique. I do feel it helps. I've taken a second off my PB so now at 46s.
Just got an Android stopwatch that calls out the time every 10s and have realised that I spend around 10s on each F2L pair which is pathetic.
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I would imagine that it is something you can also do when your hands are too tired but you still want to work on something cubing related. Also I would add that MichaelErskine made a good point about mentally blocking out the last layer color in you search for pairs. This is probably the most important skill to develop to find the pairs quickly because just one scan of all the pieces on the cube can tell you if a piece in F2L is important or not. So during F2L or practicing searching for pairs make a mental note to ignore all pieces opposite of your cross color and you will narrow in on the F2L pieces you are looking for quicker, eventually you won't have to remind yourself this and it will just be normal that you can find pairs quickly.
 
newtonbase said:
How do you guys find your pairs in F2L. I am awful at it. I tend to find a corner on the top layer then spend an age looking for the matching edge. I'm averaging about 1:12 with a PB of 47s but would love to get to sub 30s. I've been cubing for nearly 7 weeks and F2L is by far my biggest weakness (unless you could age and stiff fingers).
Click to expand...
You are doing completely fine with an average of 1.12. When i first learnt f2l i was having the same average times and just 10 weeks of dedicated practice and i average at around 45s while my pb is 35.70. What i suggest you to do is use a timer and practice only f2l in and see your times and then have another session in the evening where you solve the whole cube and time that as well. I suggest you do 50 f2l solves and about 30 full solves a day and you will start improving by nearly a second a day. Also while doing f2l solves just go slow instead of rushing and keep calm. This method helped me a lot and it will help you too. You will bring down your average within 2 weeks and also consider learning 4 look last layer and if you already know that start learning pll. Hope this helped and do inform me about your averages. :-)
 
not sure if it should be here but how would i get better at F2L .
i average at around 21 seconds but F2L takes 16 seconds usually in my solves and i need to cut it down
 
F2L Help?

Okay, I know there are tons of threads here about learning F2L, but I can't ever seem to get it down. I've tried so many tutorials but none seem to work. Can anyone point me in a direction of a GOOD F2L tutorial that covers what I need to know.
 
I learned from crazybadcuber. His intuitive F2L video is the one that helped me the most but he has a F2L Tutorial playlist too. I recommend learning intuitive opposed to algorithms because it will probably save you time. It depends on whether you are good at learning algs (I know i'm not). After taking that into account practice practice practice. I know I still have lots of practice to do on my F2L.
 
In getting better at F2L, when inserting some pairs, is there any significant advantage to using awkward, slow F and B moves? Or can I be equally as fast using cube rotations then R + L?
 
JakeTheCuber said:
Okay, I know there are tons of threads here about learning F2L, but I can't ever seem to get it down. I've tried so many tutorials but none seem to work. Can anyone point me in a direction of a GOOD F2L tutorial that covers what I need to know.
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Personally, I just learned what it was (inserting the corner and edge at the same time) and learned it myself. I've done that for several things, and it's worked for both me and someone at school I'm teaching (although for some reason he refuses to learn 2-look PLL...). I've heard badmephisto's is a good tutorial for it if you want to learn from one.
NoobyCuber said:
In getting better at F2L, when inserting some pairs, is there any significant advantage to using awkward, slow F and B moves? Or can I be equally as fast using cube rotations then R + L?
Click to expand...
I found that F moves are only useful if there's an easy pair to insert and all the other F2L pairs can be inserted using LUR. If there's more than one pair that you have to use F/B moves for, rotating is better. I never use B moves.
 
Cross/F2l Help

I average between 20-25 seconds but my times can easily be faster. My cross/f2l takes around 14-16 seconds and i cant seem to get faster at either without learning f2l algs. My oll is 2 look and I know full pll. any help?:)
 
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