[Help Thread] F2L Discussion and Help

How to reduce moves during F2L?

***Sorry! Didn't notice the "Speedcubing Help/Q&A" Thread! Please Move This There!***

Hi! My total times with CFOP average about 45 seconds, and I've noticed my times depend on how well I do my F2Ls. I've been trying to learn advanced F2L more or less intuitively, which I'm assuming to mean to use as few algorithms as possible. The only algorithms I've been using are for the "easy cases" like R U R', F' U' F, and U' R U R' U R U R', and R U R' U' to move the pieces around. I'm generally pretty busy and I don't have time to memorize all the cases, so I figured this was my best option. However, it feels kinda inefficient and I feel like all 4 F2L pairs can be solved in fewer moves. I did a few F2L solves, and I seem to be averaging about 60 moves in F2L. I do plan on learning look ahead to improve my F2L, but I felt that I should improve the fundamentals of the solve first.
 
Last edited:
I know you don't have time to memorize all the cases but you could learn a few new ways to insert things each day. You could try looking at algorithms for one F2L case a day and try to understand how the solutions work on an intuitive level. That way you aren't memorizing algs but are learning a new way of looking at that pair. http://www.cubesolv.es/ is also a cool way to see how different cubers handle the F2L. Sometimes I look at reconstructions and immediately see a more efficient way of doing something and just decide to switch F2L algs because it clearly made more sense to do it in that new way.
 
Thanks for the help! However, I'm still a bit confused about what intuitive F2L is. Does it mean to figure out the case and solve it on the spot or does it mean to put together some simple algorithms mentioned above to insert the pair?
 
Jont828 said:
Thanks for the help! However, I'm still a bit confused about what intuitive F2L is. Does it mean to figure out the case and solve it on the spot or does it mean to put together some simple algorithms mentioned above to insert the pair?
Click to expand...

Intuitive F2L is figuring out your own way of solving F2L pairs. I'm sure what you are doing is mostly intuitive. The problem with that is if you cannot come up with efficient solutions to pairs then you have very high move counts and you could either try to figure out on your own how to reduce move counts or by looking up algorithms to assist you in the right direction.

I found a better definition. "Intuitive solving consists in solving the Rubik's cube without using any algorithm that you do not understand."
 
Last edited:
You should learn algorithms for cases: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 and 11, but you should already know 2 and 3, and 4 is just the sexy move twice and then R U R', so that leaves 5 cases, but it should really help your F2L. Other than that just practice.
Here are the cases:http://www.cubewhiz.com/f2l.php
When learning these, don't just learn the algorithms so much, but learn how the pieces move and know why the algorithms work, this will definitely help with learning. Good luck!
 
Need help with cross and F2L!

I started cubing about 2 months ago and I have been getting good results. Here is my average
1 23.37 D' U B' D2 R2 F2 B' R' L2 D' U' L' R F2 U2 F2 R F2 U2 L' F' L' U D2 R'
2 14.82 R2 L' F U R' U2 F U' L U L R F2 B' L' F2 B2 D2 L' D U2 F2 U F2 L
3 18.2 F U2 L2 R F2 L2 R2 F2 D2 U R2 U' D' R' L U2 F R U F2 U' L D' B2 R'
4 16.8 D R' L' D' B2 U' F R2 D F' L2 R2 U2 B' F2 D F R2 L' U' B' D2 F2 B R2
5 17.48 B2 U2 L2 D' B2 L B R L' D F L' F' D' R' U' B R2 B R' B D' U2 R2 U'
6 17.54 B' L' D' U L D2 B' D F' D R L F' R' L F2 B2 U2 R L F' D2 B2 D F'
7 17.66 F' L U2 L2 U R' D2 L D' B2 U R L' D' U' L2 D' U' B L2 F2 D' R2 U B2
Average: 17.27

Can someone help me with my cross and F2L:o:o
 
nanocube said:
I have followed some advice on "How to Get Faster using the Fridrich / CFOP Method" thread.

Step 1 . I learned Badmephisto's f2l beginners' techniques quickly (get a edge and a corner on top, a. insert or b. split and insert or c. make a good pair and insert) but had a hard time speeding it up. I got mixed up every time I tried to get under 1:30.

Step 2. I then tried to standardize my solving technique like this: every time I find a pair not ready to be inserted, I split it by bringing the corner to the front bottom right, and then apply corner in place edge in U face algos on the right or on the left with a cube turn (only 2 quick algos). With this (and the three beginners' techniques) I cover all cases.

I find this strategy very convenient, but it is not covered anywhere on the web (as far as I know anyway).

In your opinion, is this a good F2L strategy? Should I practice to automate it really fast or do you think I will run into limitations when trying to get under 1 mn average?

Thanks in advance for your comments,

Arnaud.
Click to expand...

At your times, you shouldn't start learning F2L (with pairs). You should start with this, which is step one, and not step three. After that, start doing 4LLL, and only after 4LLL should you start learning F2L.

Edit: to address your question, I feel that your tactic is very inefficient. If you find a pair, insert it. Bringing the corner down is just adding an extra step.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
F2l Strategy Question (current 1:30, goal <1:00 )

I have followed some advice on "How to Get Faster using the Fridrich / CFOP Method" thread.

Step 1 . I learned Badmephisto's f2l beginners' techniques quickly (get a edge and a corner on top, a. insert or b. split and insert or c. make a good pair and insert) but had a hard time speeding it up. I got mixed up every time I tried to get under 1:30.

Step 2. I then tried to standardize my solving technique like this: every time I find a pair not ready to be inserted, I split it by bringing the corner to the front bottom right, and then apply corner in place edge in U face algos on the right or on the left with a cube turn (only 2 quick algos). With this (and the three beginners' techniques) I cover all cases.

I find this strategy very convenient, but it is not covered anywhere on the web (as far as I know anyway).

In your opinion, is this a good F2L strategy? Should I practice to automate it really fast or do you think I will run into limitations when trying to get under 1 mn average?

Thanks in advance for your comments,

Arnaud.
 
nanocube said:
I have followed some advice on "How to Get Faster using the Fridrich / CFOP Method" thread.

Step 1 . I learned Badmephisto's f2l beginners' techniques quickly (get a edge and a corner on top, a. insert or b. split and insert or c. make a good pair and insert) but had a hard time speeding it up. I got mixed up every time I tried to get under 1:30.

Step 2. I then tried to standardize my solving technique like this: every time I find a pair not ready to be inserted, I split it by bringing the corner to the front bottom right, and then apply corner in place edge in U face algos on the right or on the left with a cube turn (only 2 quick algos). With this (and the three beginners' techniques) I cover all cases.

I find this strategy very convenient, but it is not covered anywhere on the web (as far as I know anyway).

In your opinion, is this a good F2L strategy? Should I practice to automate it really fast or do you think I will run into limitations when trying to get under 1 mn average?

Thanks in advance for your comments,

Arnaud.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I understand your F2L strategy, but it sounds way to complicated and algorithm reliant. Try viewing some other F2L tutorials to give you different tips, point of views, and teaching methods
 
Last edited by a moderator:
CheesecakeCuber said:
I'm not sure I understand your F2L strategy, but it sounds way to complicated and algorithm reliant. Try viewing some other F2L tutorials to give you different tips, point of views, and teaching methods
Click to expand...

I completely agree with you. You should simplify your F2L to your best ability. Complicating your f2l is the last thing you want to do.
 
How to get f2l to 5 seconds. I dont find a f2l pair in inspection so I do not have any transition from cross to f2l! Currently my f2l is 8 seconds but I want to get it down to 5 so how tom do it?
 
Lookahead during cross to the first pair alternatively. When you can do the cross BLD it shouldn't be too hard as it's just like lookahead during F2L. But still always try to predict the first pair since you get better at it the more you try.
 
We thought you meant including cross. So for F2L pair training just experiment with different turning speeds. I can get 4-5 seconds with turning fast and little lookahead but more consistently I can turn more relaxed focusing on smooth turning and avoiding lockups and get just as fast. So finding how slow you can turn while still achieving a speed faster than your global average has been good practice for me.
 
jeff081692 said:
We thought you meant including cross. So for F2L pair training just experiment with different turning speeds. I can get 4-5 seconds with turning fast and little lookahead but more consistently I can turn more relaxed focusing on smooth turning and avoiding lockups and get just as fast. So finding how slow you can turn while still achieving a speed faster than your global average has been good practice for me.
Click to expand...
I currently turn at a moderate speed with little look ahead! Got to work on lookahead. Thank you for the tip :) I will work on that :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

pcwiz
[Help Thread] CFOP Discussion
144 145 146
Replies
2,918
Views
771,789
abunickabhi
abunickabhi
A
Metronome discussion thread
8 9 10
Replies
192
Views
40,721
szalejot
szalejot
S
[Discussion] Alternatives to F2L Pairs
Replies
1
Views
4,829
ThomasJE
ThomasJE
C
Advanced F2L - Wiki Discussion
Replies
6
Views
2,810
RyanReese09
RyanReese09
A
[Help Thread] Xcross Tips and Discussion
4 5 6
Replies
100
Views
51,195
jdh3000
J
Back
Top