[Help Thread] F2L Discussion and Help

[Tom Patterson]

See my problem is I can plan out the first 2 but when I get to the third fourth I get all wierd and just start the timer and hope i get it right. It's annoying though, and I have watched example solves... and tried the unlimited inspection kinda like JPERM but idk, I wish this stuff was easy haha. But I will definitely keep trying!

It sounds like you're doing all the right stuff then. Just keep working on it and practising and your times should go down

 

[Nysm]

But see I don't know if there are any tricks to the cross, like I can't just see it and know what to do.

 

[Tom Patterson]

But see I don't know if there are any tricks to the cross, like I can't just see it and know what to do.

That will come with solving more and more crosses and thus practice. You will also learn a few tricks just by watching some more example solves

 

[JanTheMan]

How do I insert a pair without destroying my cross at the bottom?

 

[Rpotts]

Most F2L cases just bring the cross temporarily up and down, like R U' R' to put a pair in temporarily moves the cross piece on the right but places it back.

 

[Duncan Bannon]

When doing F2l is it best to find corner, then find edge peice, move edge if necessary, pair and insert. Or try to look and find both a corner and edge peice already in top layer. Thanks a ton.

 

[obelisk477]

When doing F2l is it best to find corner, then find edge peice, move edge if necessary, pair and insert. Or try to look and find both a corner and edge peice already in top layer. Thanks a ton.

See this post on corner bias

 

[Drusus]

Hello all!

I've learned the Rubiks cube 5 years ago in grade 9 and since then I haven't been able to consistently drop below 30 second solves except for those few lucky solves. I started learning some algorithms from this very handy site (http://www.cubewhiz.com/index.php), which has significantly improved my solve time for OLL/PLL (and I had an easy time with pattern recognition and algorithm performace with these).

The problem however is in my cross and first two layers (these take a combined 20 seconds). Regarding the cross, I really struggle to be able to look at the cube and come up with the most efficient way (less than or equal to 8 moves) to solve the cross within a reasonable amount of time. Another issue I have with the cross is that the algorithms I usually come up with are really hard to perform without rotations and while maintaining continuity in TPS, for example performing U B' with the right hand (my main hand). As for for F2L, I have difficulty pairing unintuitive cases and I find myself performing many unecessary moves to get the pieces paired. I don't really want to brute force memorize F2L algorithms unless that's really necessary, though.

Any tips to reduce my cross and F2L times? Thanks.

 

[TDM]

Hello all!

I've learned the Rubiks cube 5 years ago in grade 9 and since then I haven't been able to consistently drop below 30 second solves except for those few lucky solves. I started learning some algorithms from this very handy site (http://www.cubewhiz.com/index.php), which has significantly improved my solve time for OLL/PLL (and I had an easy time with pattern recognition and algorithm performace with these).

The problem however is in my cross and first two layers (these take a combined 20 seconds). Regarding the cross, I really struggle to be able to look at the cube and come up with the most efficient way (less than or equal to 8 moves) to solve the cross within a reasonable amount of time. Another issue I have with the cross is that the algorithms I usually come up with are really hard to perform without rotations and while maintaining continuity in TPS, for example performing U B' with the right hand (my main hand). As for for F2L, I have difficulty pairing unintuitive cases and I find myself performing many unecessary moves to get the pieces paired. I don't really want to brute force memorize F2L algorithms unless that's really necessary, though.

Any tips to reduce my cross and F2L times? Thanks.

Hello!

Two things you can do to improve your cross (and in fact, your F2L) are to (i) watch example solves on YouTube, and (ii) take a look at reconstructions of people's solves on the Reconstruction Database. Seeing what other people do can give you ideas of how to solve certain cases more efficiently.

About F2L efficiency: you don't need to brute force memorising any cases! By looking at many algorithms you might get an idea of how they work, and will be able to understand them intuitively. So it can help to look at some algorithms, even if you don't plan to drill them and memorise them as you would do LL algorithms.

 

[ThatCuberGuy]

When doing F2L, how common is it for advanced (sub 12) cubers to be able to recognize a corner piece by only looking at two of its stickers? For example, when I'm doing white cross and I see the orange-green edge, I look for a corner with orange and green. But there's two corners with both colours, so I have to rotate either the cube or my head to look at the third colour to make sure it's white.

Do fast cubers know the colour scheme well enough to not have to spend time to look at the third colour (since you only NEED to know the locations of 2 colours of a corner to predict the third colour) ? If so, what are ways to practice to eventually not have to fumble to look at the third colour of the corner?

 

[TDM]

When doing F2L, how common is it for advanced (sub 12) cubers to be able to recognize a corner piece by only looking at two of its stickers? For example, when I'm doing white cross and I see the orange-green edge, I look for a corner with orange and green. But there's two corners with both colours, so I have to rotate either the cube or my head to look at the third colour to make sure it's white.

Do fast cubers know the colour scheme well enough to not have to spend time to look at the third colour (since you only NEED to know the locations of 2 colours of a corner to predict the third colour) ? If so, what are ways to practice to eventually not have to fumble to look at the third colour of the corner?

I don't know if many people practise/learn this, or if they pick up the habit over time, or even if they just don't use it since they can look ahead well enough to know where the corners are anyway. I certainly didn't actively practise this, however, there are a couple of methods I can think of which can help:

1) Conrad Rider's lookahead trainer, designed for this exact purpose.
2) Hand-scramble a cube without looking, and then hold it so you can only see the R, U and F faces. Then try to name which stickers are on BUR, LUF, and DBR. Then look at them to check if you were right. Hand scramble again and repeat.

 

[EmperorZant]

I don't know if many people practise/learn this, or if they pick up the habit over time, or even if they just don't use it since they can look ahead well enough to know where the corners are anyway.

I remember being stuck on this nuance of F2L for a while, and since I'm color-neutral, that was the solution I settled on: improving my lookahead to the point that I didn't have to worry about how a corner is oriented, because I could just check its orientation before I even started to solve the corner.

I don't know that that's necessarily the right thing to do, though; if a decent recognition method for that kind of thing does exist, I would certainly like to look into it.

 

[ThatCuberKoko]

So I just got back into cubing about a month ago, and I have been practicing daily. My F2L stinks. It takes me about 10-13 seconds, and I average about 23-24 seconds. I looked up the 41 F2L cases, and I am in the midst of memorizing them, I just don't know how to practice them :/. Any tips?

 

[TipsterTrickster]

So I just got back into cubing about a month ago, and I have been practicing daily. My F2L stinks. It takes me about 10-13 seconds, and I average about 23-24 seconds. I looked up the 41 F2L cases, and I am in the midst of memorizing them, I just don't know how to practice them :/. Any tips?

That exact same thing was happening to me and that’s why I switched to roux.

 

[ThatCuberKoko]

That exact same thing was happening to me and that’s why I switched to roux.

I took a look at roux a while ago, I might switch but I'd like to try getting this down first.

 

[WillyTheWizard]

My times are slow. I need tips on f2l. Base on the attached video what f2l method should i do? (Keyhole intuitive etc) vid:

 

[CRL0312]

If you would really like to, you can dedicate yourself and learn the algs here: http://algdb.net/Set/F2L. I learned these at the beginning of summer and learned them in about a week, at first recognition was slow, but over time my times started falling like crazy. I also though it would feel robotic learning algs, but over time it pretty much turns from algorithmic F2L to intuitive F2L. Wether you choose to learn algorithmic F2L or intuitive is completely up to you, but please stop learning methods like keyhole and start using the real F2L. Also if you haven’t, please learn 2-look-OLL.

Edit: by the looks of your video, your turning style is very rough, now I can understand that but turning a little softer may help you. Also your finger tricks look a little messy so try to work on that. Finally, based on your harsh turning, your cube seems really really tight, try loosening or maybe expirement and find an efficient way to lube it, possibly buy a better cube. I understand it may be hard to get money and buy a good cube, you may be on a budget, but if you are serious about cubing try to save up some money and buy a new cube. If you need good budget cubes, look at the MF3RS2, the MF3RS, or the YuXin little magic (personally recommend this one).

 

[WillyTheWizard]

If you would really like to, you can dedicate yourself and learn the algs here: http://algdb.net/Set/F2L. I learned these at the beginning of summer and learned them in about a week, at first recognition was slow, but over time my times started falling like crazy. I also though it would feel robotic learning algs, but over time it pretty much turns from algorithmic F2L to intuitive F2L. Wether you choose to learn algorithmic F2L or intuitive is completely up to you, but please stop learning methods like keyhole and start using the real F2L. Also if you haven’t, please learn 2-look-OLL.

Edit: by the looks of your video, your turning style is very rough, now I can understand that but turning a little softer may help you. Also your finger tricks look a little messy so try to work on that. Finally, based on your harsh turning, your cube seems really really tight, try loosening or maybe expirement and find an efficient way to lube it, possibly buy a better cube. I understand it may be hard to get money and buy a good cube, you may be on a budget, but if you are serious about cubing try to save up some money and buy a new cube. If you need good budget cubes, look at the MF3RS2, the MF3RS, or the YuXin little magic (personally recommend this one).

whats a cube under 25 dollars to buy thats good?

 

[JustAnotherGenericCuber]

whats a cube under 25 dollars to buy thats good?

Moyu Weilong GTS2M from cubezz, $20

 

[CRL0312]

whats a cube under 25 dollars to buy thats good?

A Valk, or a GTS2, or a GTS2M, be warned with the GTS2M as the magnets are held in by bad glue and putting this thing down wrong can knock the magnets out. This is a good cube that’s on a major sale right now: https://thecubicle.us/senhuan-mars-p-7528.html

GTS2M: https://speedcubeshop.com/products/moyu-weilong-gts2m-3x3 (may be a little over your price range but, you can find discount codes like “paradoxcubing” and get a discount)

GTS2: https://speedcubeshop.com/products/moyu-weilong-gts2

Valk 3:https://thecubicle.us/valk-p-7148.html (SpeedCubeShop was sold out so I went to thecubicle)