[Help Thread] F2L Discussion and Help

[mark49152]

Thanks Dominate, it's great to see how that works! Brest's alg is great too - flows well with no regrip - but yes I struggled with it on the left.

 

[Smiles]

Okay I had never heard of F2L, OLL, or PLL and I only knew about the beginner method till like sub-45 with a PB of 30. The best part of my solve was the cross, I was a pretty efficient noob. Don't be me.
I didn't even know beginner's OLL/PLL, it was straight up weird beginner stuff that ends with corner orientation.
Anyway, my turning speed obviously was the next best part of my solve, which is terrible considering that I couldn't be smooth or look ahead during F2L. I hadn't learned full PLL and I had barely got 2-look OLL, so I was crap by then. No guides like 2-look sets, I just looked up full alg sets and used EO + Sune + Sune to do OLL (which I had to figure out myself omg).

_

F2L had always been the weakest part of my solves, and getting used to look ahead took the longest for me and for most people.
But with saying that, don't focus on look ahead until you have the F2L cases in muscle memory. Even though it's intuitive, at some point you'll recognize every different Corner-Edge positioning as a different case.

 

[Physics Cube]

How Can I Improve My F2L?

I have been cubing for 4 months, i average 28-27. And my personal best is 16.14 seconds. I'am wondering what tips you can give me to speed up my F2L.

 

[MichaelErskine]

I have been cubing for 4 months, i average 28-27. And my personal best is 16.14 seconds. I'am wondering what tips you can give me to speed up my F2L.

I've been cubing since Jun 15 2008 and you're already faster than me! You're doing great - try Rowan's advice here: http://tinyurl.com/3s8e4qo

 

[Physics Cube]

Thanks a lot. The main tip I hear is to go slow and look ahead.

 

[Zamulacz]

How to see F2L mirrors while solving ?

Hi guys!
This is my first thread on this forum : )
I have one question for you: how do you fast recognize a F2L mirrors while solving?
I'm learning F2L mirrors but when I solve my cube, I can't recognize them and I must have pair of edge and corner to front of me. Sometimes I remember where is unsolved pair but sometimes. And I always do 3-4 regrips for F2L. If I will practise more, and have better lookahead, I'll have better times and smoother moves for F2L mirrors? Or I can just a tilt my cube?
If I wrote something unintelligible, sorry for that and correct me please.
Ohhh, sh*t.... I should write it in help/question.... sorry..

 

[littlewing1208]

Similar to Zamulucz, I'm to the point that I know all the F2L cases, but when trying to go fast, I tend to do too many rotations and am slow to get them in the state I need to execute the algorithms. Is it common that people run through an algorithm if a corner or edge is in the wrong slot but just do an extra U or U' or U2 to insert it in the correct slot?

 

[EMI]

Similar to Zamulucz, I'm to the point that I know all the F2L cases, but when trying to go fast, I tend to do too many rotations and am slow to get them in the state I need to execute the algorithms. Is it common that people run through an algorithm if a corner or edge is in the wrong slot but just do an extra U or U' or U2 to insert it in the correct slot?

In this case I recommend either solving the pair that belongs into the spot the other corner/edge is in, or just turning the piece out in a way that already creates a free pair/other easy insertion btw in some cases there are "algorithms" like R2 u R2 u' that are faster. If you do too many rotations just try to solve every F2L-case with R and U only. This is possible in the majority of cases

 

[omer]

Similar to Zamulucz, I'm to the point that I know all the F2L cases, but when trying to go fast, I tend to do too many rotations and am slow to get them in the state I need to execute the algorithms. Is it common that people run through an algorithm if a corner or edge is in the wrong slot but just do an extra U or U' or U2 to insert it in the correct slot?

First you must know how to do many of the cases from different angles...

For example setup this:
R U R' y2
Now if you look on the back you'll see an F2L pair and its slot empty right next to it.
Instead of inserting it by doing y2 R U' R' you could just do L U' L'.

Don't think of F2L in terms of algorithms until you are really good at it, you should do F2L fully intuitive before you start learning algorithms. Algorithms are just there to make the awkward and long cases shorter and more finger-tricky with less rotations. Even when you do learn an algorithm, you should first try to see what it actually does before you start practicing it, as it will improve your understanding of F2L and will show you how things can be done faster.

Don't go fast when practicing F2L, practice going really slow and try to find creative ways to insert pairs without rotations like in the example above. If I recall correctly there are about 500 cases two pair pieces can be located and rotated in the F2L stage, and 1000+ if you consider if some slots are open or not. Of-course we don't learn all the different most optimal algs, we learn how to do F2L intuitively and reduce those cases into cases we know how to solve. The more you practice going slow the more cases you know, and the better you get at doing them more efficiently.

Search YouTube for F2L videos, there's a lot you can learn about F2L intuition and ways to avoid cube rotations.

 

[littlewing1208]

That is great advice and honestly, I feared it was the case. I can do about 20 of the 41 cases intuitively and likely from multiple angles but lots of them I can't yet so I will work on that. Does a d or Dw count as a rotation for setup?

 

[EMI]

That is great advice and honestly, I feared it was the case. I can do about 20 of the 41 cases intuitively and likely from multiple angles but lots of them I can't yet so I will work on that. Does a d or Dw count as a rotation for setup?

Technically not but it actually is in a way. I don't know what your times are, because in fact doing too many cube rotations is not the problem when each F2L case is solved with many moves. maybe you could just do a solve or two and count how many moves one pair takes you to insert on average Of course solve videos or written solve reconstructions would also show us what you can do to become faster.

 

[littlewing1208]

Technically not but it actually is in a way. I don't know what your times are, because in fact doing too many cube rotations is not the problem when each F2L case is solved with many moves. maybe you could just do a solve or two and count how many moves one pair takes you to insert on average Of course solve videos or written solve reconstructions would also show us what you can do to become faster.

Before starting to learn F2L, I was doing LBL with 4LLL (2OLL and 2PLL....sometimes I know 1LPLL) and my PB was 29.98 with an A012 in the 39.x range. Now I'm averaging 45s.

 

[demontoe]

Hi cubers! The demontoe has also been working on F2L mostly as of late and has come up with a lot of interesting insights but my approach is a little different from what most of you are suggesting i.e. learn F2L intuitively. My idea is to learn the algorithms but learn them in such a way that they become intuitive. However I am not recommending this method to anyone. Since last week I think was the first time I had solved a cube sub-60 in years, I would advise taking anything I have said or am about to say with caution. I have so many things I would like to discuss that I probably won't put much in this first post and may not post anymore if everyone seems totally disinterested in what a noob has to say.
So much for the disclaimer! Unfortunately for you all my forum skills are probably weaker than my cubing skills. I tried to copy a cube image and failed then I tried to save the file and it saved it as a bmp and it was either too big or the wrong format to upload so unless someone can help me figure that out you won't have much to look at either.
Mainly I want to thank you all for this thread and all the youtube links and good advice. I've found that there is much to learn just about F2L beyond just my list of algorithms that I printed off the rubik's cube disc. I watched most of badmephisto's vids and they are great. I would advise anyone to start there. If you are just learning F2L and especially if you are trying to learn it without the algs, I would advise you to not time your solves at all because you won't see much improvement until you have at least one way of solving most of the cases and don't need to think about it too much. And lastly I wanted to thank Brest for that alg on page 62 to solve that case that I am unable to paste or insert The alg I was using was so bad it didn't even make it to your wiki page. I used F' U' F' L F L' U2 F and it was probably the alg I most despised . That wiki is a gold mine for sure! I am curious to know too what you would do for the mirror case of that one. I mirrored the given alg F U R U' R' F' R U' R' across the diagonal to get R' U' F' U F R F' U F but this doesn't look as nice as it's mirror? I found U2 R2 U2 R' U' R U' R2 and R U R' U2 R U R' U' R U R'. The first isn't very intuitive so I'll probably stick with the 2nd one unless someone knows of an even better one! . These are in reference to alg 23 on the wiki which is the mirror of alg 24. Again sorry my eskills are so poor that I can't give you a pic.

 

[speedpicker]

And lastly I wanted to thank Brest for that alg on page 62 to solve that case that I am unable to paste or insert The alg I was using was so bad it didn't even make it to your wiki page. I used F' U' F' L F L' U2 F and it was probably the alg I most despised . That wiki is a gold mine for sure! I am curious to know too what you would do for the mirror case of that one. I mirrored the given alg F U R U' R' F' R U' R' across the diagonal to get R' U' F' U F R F' U F but this doesn't look as nice as it's mirror? I found U2 R2 U2 R' U' R U' R2 and R U R' U2 R U R' U' R U R'. The first isn't very intuitive so I'll probably stick with the 2nd one unless someone knows of an even better one! . These are in reference to alg 23 on the wiki which is the mirror of alg 24. Again sorry my eskills are so poor that I can't give you a pic.

U2 R2 U2 R' U' R U' R2 isnt so bad really, with a bit of practice its pretty fast, and is the one I use. If you are solving into FL so it really is a mirror of 24, (U') F R U' R' F' L' U' L works great, which is the mirror of the alg I recommended previously that Brest bested. The mirror of Brests alg also works into FL (obviously) F' U' L' U L F L' U L, and is also perfectly workable.

One more option, longer but fast: (R U R' U') U' (R U R' U')(R U R')
Sexy move (U') Double sexy.

 

[demontoe]

Thanks speedpicker. I was doing the last alg you mentioned R U R' U' U' R U R' U' R U R' but the way I was doing it was far from sexy but now it is easily one of my fastest alg so I'm using that one in my solves. However, your other alg is also interesting because I did not realize you could just do a ( y ) turn to mirror the case into the left slot! This actually provides a useful tool for exploring the mirrored wiki algs. I found that out of the 41 F2L positions ( 42 if u count the solved case :rolleyes: ) we have 19 which are mirror pairs so 2 x 19 = 38 which leaves 3 cases which don't have a diagonal mirror. All of the algs shown on the wiki and in most places show these mirrored cases across the diagonal rather than mirrored into other slots. The reason is obviously just because the convention is to show the F2L pair and hence it's algorithm in the front right slot ( FR ). So really there are 4 ways to mirror an F2L algorithm but only 3 that are probably useful : we can mirror it diagonally the way the pairs are shown in the wiki to the same slot across the diagonal (this gives u the mirrored case shown in the wiki if it has one), to the front left ( FL ) slot with a ( y ) turn , we can mirror it into the back right (BR) slot with a ( y' ) turn, or Felix knows why but we could even mirror it into the back left ( BL ) slot. Maybe I should just go back to intuitive F2L arrrrghh!

 

[Artic]

Suggestions/advice for my F2L...

hello everyone,

I've been "speed cubing" for the past 2.5 months, so I'm still relatively new at this. I got into it because someone gave me Dan Harris' "Speedsolving the cube" book as a gift, and I found it fun and exciting to get faster and faster Right now I'm averaging ~50 seconds with a PB of 33 secs using CFOP. I'm not sure if what Dan has outlined in his book is the best method, but I've been following it and here's what I've learned so far:

I memorized all the 41 F2L cases and use those during my solves.
I know all the PLL's and use those during my solves.
I know 9 OLL cases(the ones where the edges are placed correctly) and also use those during my solves.

I guess the reason I've been following his book is that I'm sort of a book learner, and I always prefer structure and order when learning new things. My question is regarding F2L. As I've come to understand...learning all the 41 cases may not have been the best method. I hear the word "intuitive" F2L mentioned...and that you should try to avoid cube rotations as much as possible. But given that I have memorized all those cases, what should be my next step? I would like to work on my F2L to make it fluid, but I also put a lot of time into learning all those cases and don't want to throw that all away(of course, I would if the experts here suggest it)

Ant tips/advice/suggestions? In particular, any youtube links to F2L videos showing advanced F2L strategies for people who DID take the time to memorize all the cases. I just want a good direction to head in, and like I said, I'm willing to sacrifice learned material if it means I'll get better.

thanks for your help

 

[redbeat0222]

Always try your hardest to keep track of the pieces but make it fast and smooth also.

 

[kunparekh18]

Re: Suggestions/advice for my F2L...

Its good to have memorized all the F2L cases, but doing them intuitively will lead to understanding the cube better and also in giving more flexibility to your solves, leading to better times.

I suggest you watch Rishi Doshi's hunt for F2L series and badmephisto's 2-part Fridrich F2L series. Learn it intuitively, learn better techniques to get averages, like upto 25 seconds. Then use your knowledge of all the algs to get better!!

Sent from my A75 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Kampa]

I am currently about 50 sec average and i am working to become sub 40. I know all pll and 2look oll. My current problem I believe is f2l. I have no problem recognizing cases but when it's difficult cases, I seem to take the longest route possible. any help in getting faster at my f2l?

 

[The Supreme One]

Ok, my internet died the last time I tried to write this, so I'll abridge the dissertation.

Practice these cases heavily by creating them on purpose after you build your cross. Look for the absolute fewest moves required to get the case solved, by this I mean try to place one of the pieces into the wrong slot, pair the other as you free the first from the slot, and then place them both.

It sounds complex, but it's usually only like 6 moves.