[Help Thread] F2L Discussion and Help

[tkdrules29]

F2L Improvement Tips? I need to improve times.

How can a improve my times by a ton. i average around 1:30 with beginners right now and I know F2L a little.

 

[GuRoux]

How can a improve my times by a ton. i average around 1:30 with beginners right now and I know F2L a little.

just keep practicing, you just need to figure out all the cases and recognize them quickly;

 

[god of rubic 2]

For those who sub 12 average on 3x3. For F2L cases when either a corner is twisted or an edge is flipped in its required slot, do you perform an algorithm to solve the case, or solve the case intuitively with improvised moves?

 

[Hypocrism]

For those who sub 12 average on 3x3. For F2L cases when either a corner is twisted or an edge is flipped in its required slot, do you perform an algorithm to solve the case, or solve the case intuitively with improvised moves?

The algorithms for these are not "intuitive", since they are in muscle memory already after a multitude of solves. The moves aren't worked out from scratch for each new solve. However it is best to learn this algorithmic solution in an intuitive way, by working out the moves yourself before looking at actual algorithm sources for alternative solutions, so that you start to develop a sense of how the other pieces on the cube move and react to your pair solution.

 

[god of rubic 2]

The algorithms for these are not "intuitive", since they are in muscle memory already after a multitude of solves. The moves aren't worked out from scratch for each new solve. However it is best to learn this algorithmic solution in an intuitive way, by working out the moves yourself before looking at actual algorithm sources for alternative solutions, so that you start to develop a sense of how the other pieces on the cube move and react to your pair solution.

I think you misunderstood me, anyone can solve a case intuitively but there are shorter algorithms, that are not intuitive that people might use. Just want to know if people actually use these algs or not.

E.g. R2 U2 R' U' R U' R' U2 R' and R U2 R U R' U R U2' R2' for twisted corners.

 

[Hypocrism]

I think you misunderstood me, anyone can solve a case intuitively but there are shorter algorithms, that are not intuitive that people might use. Just want to know if people actually use these algs or not.

E.g. R2 U2 R' U' R U' R' U2 R' and R U2 R U R' U R U2' R2' for twisted corners.

Personally I use the "intuitive" solution for these cases, the "blockbuilding" cases you give are no shorter, and less convenient. Plus it is much easier to modify them to influence the next pair. I expect that's the same for faster solvers than me (I am not sub12 as you asked, but about 14)

 

[god of rubic 2]

A friend of mine is sub 10 and he uses those algs, so I just want to know if other fast solvers use "blockbuilding" algs.

 

[windhero]

How can a improve my times by a ton. i average around 1:30 with beginners right now and I know F2L a little.

With the very basic beginners method I've clocked a 30,00 second solve. I'm sure some people could maybe even sub 20 a lucky beginners method solve.

When your times are over 1min the biggest problem is usually how you handle the cube. I suggest you slowly learn F2L pair insertion and work most on your finger tricks. You shouldnt have to use wrist turns at pretty much any point of the solve. Try to get your cross done in under 10 seconds, the first two layers in under 25-30 seconds and the last layer in under 20 seconds. That would make you a sub 1min solver fairly easily.

Remember that you have 15 seconds of inspection time. Use that to plan your cross or atleast 2-3 cross edges so that when the timer starts you have your cross completely or almost completely planned. This way you can easily do your cross in less than 10 seconds and then naturally move on to F2L insertions.

 

[TheNewbCuber]

For some reason, I find even though I look ahead enough to eliminate all pauses, well, my f2l+cross takes 15 seconds, and LL takes 10 seconds. What else in F2L can be improved( using optimum moves, btw)

 

[pipkiksass]

For some reason, I find even though I look ahead enough to eliminate all pauses, well, my f2l+cross takes 15 seconds, and LL takes 10 seconds. What else in F2L can be improved( using optimum moves, btw)

If you're using optimum moves and have no pauses then, by definition, your f2l can't be improved!!

Also, your last layer is proportionately much slower than your f2l, I'd work on drills and recognition. Speeding up your last layer will probably improve your finger speed, helping to improve your f2l at the same time.

Also, look at ways to insert f2l pairs from different angles, or to avoid rotations, as you may find that your 'optimal' inserts contain a sub-optimal number of cube rotations or aufs.

 

[Hypocrism]

For some reason, I find even though I look ahead enough to eliminate all pauses, well, my f2l+cross takes 15 seconds, and LL takes 10 seconds. What else in F2L can be improved( using optimum moves, btw)

Turn faster and reduce rotations. Reduce cross-F2L transition time. You'll need a lot of time to eliminate pauses when your TPS increases.

 

[TheNewbCuber]

If you're using optimum moves and have no pauses then, by definition, your f2l can't be improved!!

Also, your last layer is proportionately much slower than your f2l, I'd work on drills and recognition. Speeding up your last layer will probably improve your finger speed, helping to improve your f2l at the same time.
Also, look at ways to insert f2l pairs from different angles, or to avoid rotations, as you may find that your 'optimal' inserts contain a sub-optimal number of cube rotations or aufs.

Ok. Thanks! Do you have any way for me to improve my LL? I find that even if I turn fast, it is slow. What practicing methods work?

Turn faster and reduce rotations. Reduce cross-F2L transition time. You'll need a lot of time to eliminate pauses when your TPS increases.

I know how to insert from different angles, but I think your advice on the rotations is exactly applicable to me. I do a hell lot of y2' rotations out of bad habit before I started looking ahead, I think that adds up. Does looking ahead for first pair during cross just happen with practice, cause I have difficulty doing it and not stuffing up my cross

 

[Hypocrism]

Ok. Thanks! Do you have any way for me to improve my LL? I find that even if I turn fast, it is slow. What practicing methods work?



I know how to insert from different angles, but I think your advice on the rotations is exactly applicable to me. I do a hell lot of y2' rotations out of bad habit before I started looking ahead, I think that adds up. Does looking ahead for first pair during cross just happen with practice, cause I have difficulty doing it and not stuffing up my cross

Slow solves, without having the bad habits like unnecessary rotations. Using empty slots better. For cross-F2L transition, I'm in the process of trying to get my own faster, and I practise be trying to predict where the first pair is so that I can go into it straight away, or at least to identify pieces to track to a certain extent during the cross. It takes time and isn't as important as increasing your probably slow F2L tps.

 

[Royiky]

F2L for beginners

Hello I'm a beginner and it's really hard for me to learn F2L.
Can you trie to help me.

 

[stensgaard]

try this video .. it's the one that helped me the most
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGeTtD4tB5w

 

[Krypro cuber]

F2L Tips and Help thread

hi guys i have been cubing for 2 years now. i have a dayan zhanhi but i am getting a moyu weilong soon!
anyway i have managed to get my pb down to 19.16 using the beginners method but i would like to learn f2l can anyone help me?
also i have just started a you tube account please check it out? also im looking for a partnership in you tube message me if your interested

 

[Phillip1847]

19.16 using the beginners method... wow.
Read all the resources around, use the search bar and most importantly (IMO) watch this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-xbcAMfWwM and its part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GxLM_dZqg4

 

[carbon131]

for me im tryin to get sub 29 but I cant what happenin I been tryin for the winter break an nothing and I just got a wielong and improve by couple milliseconds is it me or the cube

 

[pipkiksass]

for me im tryin to get sub 29 but I cant what happenin I been tryin for the winter break an nothing and I just got a wielong and improve by couple milliseconds is it me or the cube

It's your tendency to omit conjunctions, and the final consonants in words.

Kidding - it's more likely to be you than the cube. Do slow solves; work on reducing cube rotations and inserting f2l pair from different angles.

I never used to believe I could be sub 30. You'll get there eventually, but it requires patience and practice.

 

[RageCuber]

for me im tryin to get sub 29 but I cant what happenin I been tryin for the winter break an nothing and I just got a wielong and improve by couple milliseconds is it me or the cube

I was where you are just about a month ago, I thought I would never have a sub-30 average.
But now my P.B is 20.40. Remember this, NEVER LOOK AT THE TIMER DURING A SOLVE!!!
Also I had a mental block of sorts when i was that speed, but you have to realize that you are not
going to get faster as quick as when you were a beginner.