[Help Thread] F2L Discussion and Help

[pipkiksass]

If you're doing 150 bpm and averaging 16 seconds then you're averaging 40 moves for F2L. This is a lot. Are you counting U2 as 2 moves when metronome solving.

I'd say look at the efficiency of your F2L cases. If you're not missing a beat at 150 bpm, assuming 30 move F2L, you'll be coming out of F2L at around 12 seconds. Problem solved!

 

[Anilt]

No I don't count my u2 as 2 moves
I usually think of my number of moves like this:
cross 8 moves
4 f2l pairs * 8 moves each = 32
32+ 8 = 40, which to me is fairly reasonable, for a cross + f2l
But thanks for the tips, and you are right if I can get my cross + f2l down to 30 moves I'd be fairly happy with my f2l

 

[uberCuber]

1. Cross rarely needs to be a full 8 moves.
2. F2L pairs often don't need 8 moves either.

 

[A Leman]

3TPS and a 30 move f2l gives you a 10 second F2L. most people can turn faster, but also pause. If you go slower and turn smoothly than 3TPS is doable so make that your goal. Since you are already practicing, you should learn some new tricks for f2l. For example rU'r'U2rUr'. Drilling your F2L cases or writing out how you solve them intuitively may also help since you need to solve pairs without looking at them. Good luck!

 

[sneaklyfox]

I use a metronome and can achieve around 150 bpm without missing a beat, and if I go much higher I start missing beats, but if I stay the same my f2l is still around 16 seconds! Any Tips?

Don't go much higher. Try 151 bpm for a day. Then 152... if you only increase by 1 bpm a day that's still 30 bpm in a month which takes you to 180 bpm.

 

[Yuxuibbs]

Watch example solves, learn look ahead, watch this video:

Basically just figure out what you are not doing that faster people are doing (other than some LL algorithms). Forget about the timer for a few days, just do F2L and don't solve the cube the entire way (stop after finishing F2L and scramble cube again). Focus on trying to use as few moves as possible and count how many moves you use. Aim for sub 40 move F2L + cross.
You can also try just looking at an F2L pair, closing your eyes, doing the pair, and opening your eyes to see if that pair is solved. If it isn't, try again and repeat for the rest of F2L. This will show what cases you actually know and what cases you don't know.
Don't look at the F2L pair you are solving, look for the pair you will solve next.
Try not to pause during your solve either.

 

[Anilt]

1. Ya mostly it takes less than 8
2. Really? for me it usually takes around 8 or even more

edit: the speed is definetly doable fr me If i try that, but no matter what, I can't get my cross + f2l moves to 30. Any help on doing that?

edit 2: Thanks, but I have already have watched the video and I know intuitive f2l. I will watch some more walkthrough solves, Thanks for the tip.
What I find is that I know all my intuitive f2l cases, and I can solve them blindfolded, but it takes me an above average amount of time to recognize the next pair and the idea of look ahead is that your pair solve time= your recognition for the next pair, right? So if I can't improve my recognition time, there is probably know way to effectively use look ahead. The problem is that I am not improving much on my recognition time, even with my vigorous, long practice sessions. For example, it may take me 3 seconds to recognize my next pair making my f2l AT least 12 seconds, and these is not including cross and cross-f2l transition. Is there anyway to substantially decrease recognition time other than practice?

 

[wontolla]

Is there anyway to substantially decrease recognition time other than practice?

Come on, seriously? Do you want to connect your brain to that Matrix thingy and learn Kung Fu in 5 seconds?

 

[ben1996123]

use better algs/intuition for f2l slots

 

[GaDiBo]

I have a problem with F2L which keeps me from getting better:

I started practicing look ahead some time ago, going slow and with a steady pace to be able to look ahead into my next F2L pair.
My problem now is that I'm still not able to blindly solve every F2L case from any angle. Most, but not all. The biggest problem is that there are so many cases, and not always is a pair on top or in an easy place to pair up. Sometimes it's even impossible for me to find an edge because it's stuck in the back somewhere. Of course, being able to look ahead would reduce that issue. There have been times in which I gave up on a solve because I just couldn't find anything in like 8 seconds!
Or sometimes an easy 3move insert is on the top, but I won't recognize it because I never expect that to happen.

I've heard people say to master F2L before starting to learn look ahead, which makes sense when I hear it. In practice though, I have no idea how I should go about learning all the F2L cases. It's not like OLL/PLL which are a set of algorithms and the cases can be easily set up, or will be set up after doing the alg enough times. Most of the cases I learned intuitively, with a few shortcut exceptions.

Another thing is that when I turn slow, my lookahead is actually worse than when I turn faster, however when I turn faster, I don't have time to recognize the case I'll have with the pieces I was tracking. So naturally I'll still pause. Going slow makes my lookahead worse which doesn't help either.

I also can't get consistent solving times. In about 100 solves I'll get 2-4 17-19s solves, most of the time though, it ranges from 21 up to over 30(!) It's not like I'm timing all the time either, I often do slow solves with or without look ahead.


So I guess if you're still reading, my question would be; what in the world should I practice and how? Should I leave lookahead be and focus on F2L cases and efficiency, and working on avoiding cube rotations(another bad habit of me)? If so, how? How did you do it? Just do millions of casual solves? Or should I still work on lookahead, including avoiding rotations, and I'll master the F2L cases eventually this way?
I've been stuck on these times for quite a while now, and I just won't get better, so I hope you have some tips for me, maybe from your own experience, and how you did it?

Thanks and cheers

Nils

You must master your reconize first, you can be sub 20 without lookahead, just inmediately reconize the case and have a good fingertrick then you no problem with yor time, afer that, when you sub 20, let do a lot of slow solve when freetime and improve LL, I belive you can sub 15 with my tips

 

[GaDiBo]

Don't practicing lookahead too early, start with an intuition F2L, main on recognize case and a good fingertrick, it will lead you to sub 20 without any lookahead, ofcourse if you mastered your case recognition. When your case recognition is master, it will make your lookahead training more easier and smoother. My some personal tips

 

[mark49152]

Don't practicing lookahead too early

Bad advice, IMHO. Habits stick. The later you start learning lookahead, the harder it will be to break the habit of watching the pieces you are currently solving rather than tracking the next pair.

Blind practice helps with lookahead. Find two pairs, close your eyes, and solve one (slowly) while mentally tracking where the other will end up. After a while you will find that when solvng sighted you are tracking pairs better.

 

[YddEd]

Bad advice, IMHO. Habits stick. The later you start learning lookahead, the harder it will be to break the habit of watching the pieces you are currently solving rather than tracking the next pair.

Blind practice helps with lookahead. Find two pairs, close your eyes, and solve one (slowly) while mentally tracking where the other will end up. After a while you will find that when solvng sighted you are tracking pairs better.

I still can't resist trying to turn at 5 TPS or something while doing F2B/F2L. lol
I suck at lookahead.

 

[mark49152]

I still can't resist trying to turn at 5 TPS or something while doing F2B/F2L. lol
I suck at lookahead.

5tps is fine if you can lookahead that fast It's difficult. I'm still learning, but for me when it "clicks" it feels like a different way of looking at the cube - kind of staring and seeing more of the cube without really focusing.

 

[aceofspades98]

How many cube rotations should you do in order to complete F2L? How long should the cross and F2L take? How long does it usually take to get use to "look ahead" and get use to F2L? Whats a quick way to memorize all the cases and algorithms? Thanks! Hope to see some answers!

You can use as many cube rotations as you want, as long as you have good reason. F2l should be about 62 percent of your solve. I average about 15 and I finish F2L around 9. Look ahead is different for every one. For some it comes naturally, others it takes years. I memorize algorithms by doing them over and over again and watch what happens to CE pairs.

 

[curtishousley]

Is there algorithm/trick for solving the F2L pair (RUR'U')x3 y2? I have been running into this case quite often lately, and doing a y2 seems really slow to me.

 

[sneaklyfox]

Is there algorithm/trick for solving the F2L pair (RUR'U')x3 y2? I have been running into this case quite often lately, and doing a y2 seems really slow to me.

Do you mean where the edge is already in place and the corner is above it with cross colour on top and this is in the back left corner? If so, I like to do (ULU'L')x3. You can also do (LUL'U')x3 minus the last U'.

 

[curtishousley]

Yes that's the one I mean, not sure why I didn't think of (ULU'L')x3 lol, makes so much sense. Also just messing around I found U'LUL' U'LUL' ULU'L, almost the same. Anyhow, thanks for the help!

 

[stoic]

I do z (R U R' U')3 z'
It works on the other side too with z' (L' U' L U)3 z

 

[js112]

Help with Improving F2L Time

Hi all,

I posted a thread a while ago about this. It's in the intro subforum I think. I thought it would be more appropriate to post another, different thread here.

I average around 40-45 sec. I know 2look algs and use intuitive F2L. I can solve cross and F2L in fewer than 30 seconds usually.

How can I get faster? I've been trying for a couple weeks, but I'm stuck around here. I'd like to get to sub 20 eventually.

Should I learn the full OLL/PLL algs?

Should I practice blindfolded cross solving?

By the way, currently I'm using a dayan zhanchi.