[Help Thread] CFOP Discussion

I think everything is linked. You never stop working on confidence, and being so confident you're able to plan the next step and yet be totally confident you planned right to do it without looking etc...
 
Beginner questions with the last layer

Four years ago, I learned a simple LBL method by Tyson Mao. I got my best time down to around 45 seconds with this method.

Then about a month ago (two years after I stopped practicing), I discovered the zhanchi and I bought it just to see what my time would do with a speed cube.

Getting the zhanchi also encouraged me to learn more about speed cubing. I stumbled across CFOP. I learned some intuitive F2L, but this has not helped my time seeing that I have only been practicing it for a couple of weeks. I am going to start learning some F2L algorithms as well, to see what I can do.

However, my real question is not with F2L but with the last layer. I found the ZB method the other day. From my understanding, this method is only for extreme cubers, because it involves memorizing over 800 algorithms. The other reason most cubers don't use it is because they can do OLL and PLL in about two seconds, and they don't want to relearn everything.

Since I am such a beginner, should I learn this method instead of OLL and PLL? I would have nothing lose, since I don't know anything about OLL and PLL.

I read somewhere that it would be best to learn COLL, then ZZLL, and then, if I am feeling up to it, learn ZB.

But the main reason I am making this post is to ask this:

I tried a to solve the cube a couple times with ZB using algorithms that I found online. I solved the first three corner-edge pairs normally, and then used an algorithm I found here:

http://www.cubezone.be/zbf2l.html

to solve the final pair. However, after I did this, the case that I had didn't match up to any of the ZBLL cases. Did I do something wrong?
 
Don't learn ZBLL!!!

First learn what is called 2-look OLL and 2-look PLL, then move onto full PLL (21 algs), then full OLL (57 algs). Then you may decide if you really want to try to learn ZBLL.

Also, do F2L completely intuitively. After a lot of practice, you'll see it improve your times. AFter getting very used to F2L you may decide you want to look up algs for some cases, but most cubers do just fine with intuitive F2L.

2-Look OLL: video printable sheet

2-Look PLL: video printable sheet
 
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Solve said:
However, after I did this, the case that I had didn't match up to any of the ZBLL cases. Did I do something wrong?
Click to expand...

As long as all four edges were oriented, it was definitely a ZBLL case. However, that doesn't mean all the colors had to match up with one of the pictures. Just like the same U-perm (PLL, edge 3-cycle) can look 4 different ways depending on which edge is already solved, so can each ZBLL case look different as well. It is color patterns that remain consistent, not the specific colors themselves.

As to your main question, feel free to do whatever you want, but I would not recommend learning ZB as a beginner. You could have no idea right now, but it can get astoundingly difficult to recall algorithms from a set of 400 cases, even after the year or more it takes you to finish memorizing the algs to begin with. To start learning ZB would be to accept that you must put an insane amount of time into the cube before getting fast enough at ZB recognition to make it possibly worth it over OLL/PLL, which is so much easier to recall because of the significantly lower number of cases.

But of course, it's you, not me, so feel free to do what you want. If you feel like learning ZB for the hell of it, go right ahead, but first make sure you message one of the experienced cubers here so you can learn how the ZBLL recognition works.



Solve said:
So, F2L is best without algorithms?
Click to expand...

This is an argument people have all the time. I'll just say this: there is absolutely nothing wrong with having a set of algs sitting in front of you while you are learning, because it makes sure you aren't wasting way too many moves. But don't just memorize them in the way you would an LL algorithm, make sure you study it and really understand how the algorithm is working. This way you can gain an intuitive understanding of F2L, and be able to effectively perform these "algs" from other angles during solves, and even begin to create your own tricks.


EDIT:

myself said:
However, that doesn't mean all the colors had to match up with one of the pictures. Just like the same U-perm (PLL, edge 3-cycle) can look 4 different ways depending on which edge is already solved, so can each ZBLL case look different as well. It is color patterns that remain consistent, not the specific colors themselves.
Click to expand...

Just in case this quick explanation wasn't clear, think about it this way: You have a last layer algorithm. You start with a solved cube with yellow on top and blue on front. You perform the LL algorithm, and the cube looks a certain way. Then you take a solved cube with yellow on top, but red in front. You perform the same LL algorithm. The cube will look different than it did before, in terms of which specific colors are where, but all patterns are still the same, because it was the same algorithm. This is why your case may not have matched up exactly with any of the pictures.
 
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I know a couple of easy to recognise ZBLL cases, ones that I have stumbled upon. And I have never come across them in a solve :lol:
 
I've been trying some intuitive ZBF2L and sometimes I can get it so that the last layer edges are oriented and permuted. Has anyone else had a similar result?
 
Solve said:
I've been trying some intuitive ZBF2L and sometimes I can get it so that the last layer edges are oriented and permuted. Has anyone else had a similar result?
Click to expand...

Happens relatively often by accident, but I don't find it a particularly useful occurrence, because for most cases I can't solve the corners with one alg without disturbing edge permutation, so LL is still 2 looks for me anyway.
 
Need help with F2L

i am starting to get discouraged in learning speed cubing as there are tooo many algorithms to learn....if there is an easier way to learn it i would be extremely glad....thx
(this is my first post)
 
Go with intuitive. See RiDo's Hunting story:

By the way, I've been practicing F2L for about a month and a half now. I finally had an average of 12 under 60 two days ago, and now I'm down to 51.65. This was after weeks at 1:20.

What happened with me was that I suddenly knew where the interesting cubes were. When I see the green side on the top of the cube, I know what's on the hidden side. I can't explain how this happened, I didn't do much other than just practice the intuitive stuff.

And even though it's intuitive, there are certain cases that come up over and over and are kind of inconvenient. You end up developing an intuitive solution to them and become quite fast. However, some of these have better non-intuitive algorithms. But that's for later.
 
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thx guys for ur helpful comments....1/4 of me want to learn speedcubing and 3/4 wants to stay with the beginners method....i really dont know wat to do.....and my cube is not too good....i lubed it with sewing machine oil as in mauritius i cant find the lubricants such as silicone spray, lubix.....and now i messed up my cube which has become very hard to turn.....i cant buy online....and the type of cube available in my mauritius are the lowest grades..................MAN I wish Mauritius was not so retarded........ughhhh
 
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