The New Method / Substep / Concept Idea Thread

3*3 method proposal

Disclamer: As this concept doesn’t resemble anything I know of (I’ve been scouring the wiki for 4 months), I can’t think of keywords to use to check originality so no guarantee no one’s come up with such a simple concept. Even if someone has I hope I’ve come up with improvements. I don’t have the patience to scroll through 433 pages of method discussions.

Steps: (assuming dominant hand==right, Z-axis color neutrality required, blue/green in front)

Using pXX(X) to denote position **sometimes** and XX(X) to denote piece.

  1. Column in DL.
  2. EO+4E. Substeps are interchangeable, or can be merged completely. Ry case and Ux case are mutually exclusive.
    1. Orient and place RU and RD in EL (named Ry case) or RF and RB in EL (named Rz case), while influencing EO and setting up for next substep. Steps 2a and 1 should be merged whenever possible
    2. Orient and place UF and UB in MD (named Uz case) or UL and UR in MD (named Ux case), while solving EO. Recommended moveset: <R,r,U,M> (Sledgehammers and Hedgeslammers also recommended for orienting last 2 bad edges). Similar to LEOR EO-Stripe. Potentially optimizable with algs.
  3. Broken block 1
    1. Solve UFL and UBL while ensuring: 1. L edges are in L-layer. 2.No EP parity in {U slice, pDF, pDB}. The free R-layer should be fully utilized. Ideally parity should be avoided on the fly; if parity, try U2 R2 U2 R2 U2 R2 Recommended moveset: <U,R,M>. //7 HTM when avoiding parity
    2. Solve lU and DM like L4EP in Roux. Recommended moveset: <M,U> (Use E instead of U if preferred). //7 STM
  4. Rotation to keep unsolved face on top.
  5. Broken block 2
    1. COLL. //10 HTM
    2. Solve edges, Roux fashion. Recommended moveset: <M,U> (Use E instead of U if preferred). //7 STM

3 and 5 are interchangeable, though not recommended as it would mean an extra z-rotation.
Average steps unknown. Step stats listed above are VERY IMPRECISE. I got 40 STM first try (slow solving), then results oscillated wildly between 35-49. Ergonomics are good (compared to CFOP and vanilla ZZ). Only one alg per solve, total 40 (COLL).
It is recommended that you perform slice moves with your non-dominant hand only in the Roux-like stages for minimum regrip and easy rotation.


Lookahead and recog

Steps 1 and 2 are essentially mixed EO223. Personally I’d do 1+2a together with partial EO. If you’re bad at planning blocks then break them up into substep. The hardest step is 2b, but instant recognition is technically plausible for LEOR users (I’ve only been using YruRU for 3 weeks and am able to do EO stripe in 3 seconds, though not mixed). Steps after 2b are braindead due to the isolation of sets, meaning high symmetry and high potential for cancelling, merging and influencing.

You should probably give up predicting beyond step 2a.


Space for development

Since steps 3-5 are braindead, there may be room for advanced tricks like merging, influencing, passive block building, avoiding parity. Perhaps most lightweight is L4C de-orientation during 3a. (?)

I’ll try to work on systemizing steps 1-2. There are many ideas out there for EO223 but none are easy enough or adaptable enough for mixed blocks as far as I know.


Pros
Braindead after step 2
Ergonomic(ish)
Low movecount.
Advanced planning not required, doable on the fly (good for 4*4 after redux)
Intuitive
Low alg count
Flexibility
Possible beginner method


Cons
Steps 1-2 are difficult if you plan on doing them simultaneously.
1 rotation required (though Z’ isn’t that bad)
Doesn’t fully utilize pre-made pairs
Pseudo blocks may be impractical
Unusable for cubes bigger than 4*4
Unfinished


I would compare it to ZZ-4c (not for the resemblance of steps but for the… experience?) for the low mental load, alg count and intuitiveness; even shares the feature of getting easier throughout the solve.

I’m not sure if this is better for speedsolving, OH or FMC. However as I’m still a noob at speed, I don’t have the repertoire of tricks for speed or FMC nor the time to develop this further as I have college entrance exams coming, we’ll just have to see if anyone tailors it for FMC, speed or OH. Whatever, it may be a very efficient beginner method.

I hate naming methods after people or randomly. I’m settling for Isomir /aizəumi:r/. “Iso” meaning both “isolation” and Greek for “similar”, “mir” for “mirror”. Feel free to suggest alternatives.

I'm posting it here to see if it's worth further development and its own thread. I need also feedback on improvements, help generating algs if necessary and cubers to try it out (yes I'm so bad at speed I can't use my own method)

Edit 25.10.7
Mistaken, sorry, PLL cases aren't the worst COLLs

Edit 25.11.1
No it's not a decent FMC method because steps are too rigid
 
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1. Get to EOCP223
2. Place down DBR, correctly oriented (like 3 moves max. can be alg, there are only 18 cases anyway)
3. Do BRASS method from 2x2 to solve remaining 5 corners in one look (alg)
4. Do <R, U> L7EP (alg)

as opposed to:
2. Solve block (int)
3. Solve pair (int/alg)
4. 2GLL (alg)

edit 1: actually, L7EP would be a ton of algs. maybe after BRASS do another trigger to insert DR, then do L6EP <R, U>
edit 2: maybe not. since there are at most (7-1)!=720 L7EP cases, and maybe auf can cut down on some of those
edit 3: there are 2000 something algs. auf?
 
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elrog said:
Please read before posting

I'm making this thread for all of those ideas you have that are interesting, yet are not fully developed. This is a place to post them. I have come up with many ideas and didn't want to post a new thread for every one of them when most don't get very far. Perhaps if an idea gets very far, it may deserve its own thread, but until then, it should go here.

Be open and understanding
Everyone should be open to new ideas, yet also understanding if others don't think it will work.

Post all kinds of ideas
Feel free to post all kinds of ideas here. It does not necessarily have to be oriented around speedsolving. Ideas could range from fewest moves, blindfolding, speedsolving, OH, cube designs and more.

Be clear
Please try to be clear in your explanations of why something is a bad/good idea and use evidence to support your thoughts. Also be clear as to what idea you are referring to.

Avoid cluttering the thread
To avoid unnecessary clutter, you should edit a post to add more information rather than create a new one, unless you want to bump your idea. You should wait at a days since your last post on a certain topic to bump it. To present a new idea, you should present it in the same post as your last idea or bump if you do it on the same day.

Do Your Research
There are a lot of different methods out there. Please try to make sure your idea is new/original before posting. You should check out the methods pages on the wiki.

Here is a list of commonly suggested methods:
Belt - Anything that solves the cube like this (the belt does not always have to be made first / many times EO is solved with it). This is a broad category and there is a large variety of belt methods already out there and there is a good chance you will be repeating something.

F2L blocks - Solving a 2x2x3 block (as in Petrus) by solving 3 cross edges and the two pairs that go between them, solving two 1x2x3 blocks on opposite sides (as in Roux) by placing two cross edges and solving F2L pairs, or any other kind of block, but the already previously listed are the most common.

Cross variants - Solving the cross (or EO line) in a different manner to affect the solve later in some way. Common examples are only solving 3 cross edges, purposely solving the last cross edge as a different edge, and swapping two edges in the cross or EO line.

Last layer variants - There are for subgroups that the last layer is commonly broken down into. These are corner permutation, corner orientation, edge permutation, and edge orientation. Any combination of these in any order has been thought of before. Also, influencing any one of these in some way while placing the last F2L slot has most likely been thought of.

Corners/edges first - Solving either all or most of the corners or edges before solving much (if any) of the other is frequently suggested. In fact most of the early speedcubing methods were corners first.

PCMS - This technically is included in the corners first category, but it is suggested often enough that attention should be brought to it.

Big cube reduction variants - Reducing a 4x4 to a 2x2 has been suggested many times. Influencing edge orientation or the permutation of certain pieces while reducing the cube has been thought of as well.


If there is anything you think I should add to this list, you are welcome to suggest it.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

To start off, here's a idea I had that ended up similar to the Roux method. Because I liked how easy it was to make corner edge pairs using them M layer, I started making an F2L minus the M layer. I then proceeded to make 2 corner edge pairs in the top layer similar to what is done in Heise. These pairs should not interfere with the M layer and should contain either both BU or FU corners. In other words, you have both the left and right side complete minus 1 corner in each of them. You could then solve the remaining 2 corners and the M layer with an algorithm.

I thought this could better be adapted to speed solving by solving 2 corners while solving the last F2L pair. Then you could solve the UL and UR edges with M and U moves. In Roux, there are variants to solve the M layer last rather than the top 4 edges.

After realizing the similarities with roux, and realizing the ability to AUF the M slice separate from the corners of the top layer, I came up with this: Solve 2 1x2x3 blocks on opposite sides, AUF until you get to a CLL case, Solve the UL and UR edges without misplacing the U layer (you may temporarily move the U layer), solve the top 4 corners and the M layer with an algorithm that is reduced by the ability to AUF the M layer. It should be noted that an experienced solver wouldn't need to AUF to find a CLL case just to have to move the U layer to solve the UL and UR edges.

The number of cases could drastically be reduced by orienting edges while placing the UL and UR edges. You could also reduce it even further by using partial corner control while placing the last F2L slot finishing the second 1x2x3 block. Because CLL cases are recognized by swapping 2 corners, when you AUF to a CLL case and have the UR and UL edges solved, you leave only permutations with an odd number of swaps in the M layer giving you 4 possibilities compared to the 5 possibilities (including solved) that there would be with an even number of swaps. This is not true of CLL cases with corners correctly permuted. In all, I calculate 92 algorithms to solve the top 4 corners and the M layer using partial corner control and having edges preoriented (I did include CPLL but not cases with all corners solved and I did not include mirrors).
Click to expand...
Naaah I ain't reading an full essay
 
I swear this idea kept me awake 12pm trying not to laugh
ZZ-Line On Left look ahead sucks because D layer is hidden? No problem just do a z' without changing grip so your left hand ends up on the bottom (for OH). Happy <RUD> ZZers
But don't use it for TH because your right hand is hiding U layer and you look like you're trying to summon the cube god
 
NukesAway said:
I swear this idea kept me awake 12pm trying not to laugh
ZZ-Line On Left look ahead sucks because D layer is hidden? No problem just do a z' without changing grip so your left hand ends up on the bottom (for OH). Happy <RUD> ZZers
But don't use it for TH because your right hand is hiding U layer and you look like you're trying to summon the cube god
Click to expand...
i swear i did this once. gripped line with left hand, pointing up.
cfop has home grip, and zz has z z g r i p .
 
Idk if this method exist and how many algs it require but I recently came up with this idea :

Step 1 : 1x2x3 block on the left
Step 2 : make a 1x2x3 block on the top and bring it down ( to create a cross + 2 f2l pairs + 2 corners solved of the remainig 2 pairs )
Step 3 : solve the remaining 2 f2l edges and orient the top layer’s edges ( with one alg)
Step 4 : zbll

I haven’t explored this method much yet because it is much more similar to roux than to cfop and i am using cfop maybe someone here wants to help me with it ( if it doesn’t exist yet)
 

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Cuberd said:
Idk if this method exist and how many algs it require but I recently came up with this idea :

Step 1 : 1x2x3 block on the left
Step 2 : make a 1x2x3 block on the top and bring it down ( to create a cross + 2 f2l pairs + 2 corners solved of the remainig 2 pairs )
Step 3 : solve the remaining 2 f2l edges and orient the top layer’s edges ( with one alg)
Step 4 : zbll

I haven’t explored this method much yet because it is much more similar to roux than to cfop and i am using cfop maybe someone here wants to help me with it ( if it doesn’t exist yet)
Click to expand...
this is just worse zbroux
 
I posted this before as "EOLine+2p" but I just wanna say it again, this is such a simple idea I wonder if it can be of any help, or if anyone thought of it before.

So if you wanna see what piece ends up at a given slot after the first step of your method in inspection, first plan a solution fully, then go through it in your mind backwards, tracking the piece currently in that slot (whatever the piece may be). The piece currently at the position where you end up is the piece that will be at that slot if you go through your solution forwards.

Roux: "What edge will be in DB?"
ZZ: "What edges will be in DL, DR?"
CFOP: "What pieces will be in the BR F2L slot?"
etc.
 
Why is ZZLL phasing done with edges, not corners? I don't see why; if I count correctly there should be only 71 ZBLLs with diagonal corner swaps and 85 2GLLs adding to 156, less than ZZLL, recog should be the same and more chance of 2gen finishes
 
You could do that. Simply doing L' insert L and mirrors does the trick. I think the biggest problem with this is that you will have to learn how to do CP during last slot, and that is universally seen as hard. Movecount wise, I don't know if it would be better or worse though.
 
APB + CP method concept

I dont think epidote is very good for OH, so i wanted to make a method based off APB that is better for OH then Epidote.

I present a method that may already exist, but i wont call it my own since it uses techniques i didnt invent at all.
I want to develop this further, at least to a point where im comfortable calling it more or less my method.

1 - 2x2x3 - Blockbuild a 2x2x3 block, best to make a 1x2x3 and expand to 2x2x3

2 - CP - idk what to name this - permute, dont need to orient the DFR and DBR corners.
Then look at the top corners.
If you can tell theres an adjacent swap, put the corners that need swapping at UFR and UBR, then do D' R U R' D

If its an opposite swap, from any angle do L' U R2 U" L.

3 - BR pair - Solve your BR pair - if the BR edge is oriented, do your normal RU gen BR pair.
If it isnt, form the pair RU gen, and turn the U layer so that the edge of the pair is at UB, and the corner is at UBR. Then, do r' U' R U M'

4 - EO - Use R U r u S EO algs to well do EO and preserve CP. I will probably gen these.

5 - LXS - Do your standard LXS, but maybe use alternative algs for some cases where on 2H youd do D moves, to preserve CP and for ergonomics.

6 - LL - OCLL/EPLL or 2GLL.

Update 1 :
What about CP + EO ?
I estimate 66 cases, 11 of which should already be known if you know standard APB.

This is where the DFR and DBR corners are already permuted btw, and also makes DB edge pair easier, as you wouldnt have to worry about preserving CP whilst inserting the pair.

But 66 cases isnt the greatest.
 
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That0newe1rdo said:
APB + CP method concept

I dont think epidote is very good for OH, so i wanted to make a method based off APB that is better for OH then Epidote.

I present a method that may already exist, but i wont call it my own since it uses techniques i didnt invent at all.
I want to develop this further, at least to a point where im comfortable calling it more or less my method.

1 - 2x2x3 - Blockbuild a 2x2x3 block, best to make a 1x2x3 and expand to 2x2x3

2 - CP - idk what to name this - permute, dont need to orient the DFR and DBR corners.
Then look at the top corners.
If you can tell theres an adjacent swap, put the corners that need swapping at UFR and UBR, then do D' R U R' D

If its an opposite swap, from any angle do L' U R2 U" L.

3 - BR pair - Solve your BR pair - if the BR edge is oriented, do your normal RU gen BR pair.
If it isnt, form the pair RU gen, and turn the U layer so that the edge of the pair is at UB, and the corner is at UBR. Then, do r' U' R U M'

4 - EO - Use R U r u S EO algs to well do EO and preserve CP. I will probably gen these.

5 - LXS - Do your standard LXS, but maybe use alternative algs for some cases where on 2H youd do D moves, to preserve CP and for ergonomics.

6 - LL - OCLL/EPLL or 2GLL.
Click to expand...
There is CEOR which is a very similar method to APB, except you start by doing CP as the very first step while doing FB, then you do EO while solving DFDB, then you can solve the right side however you want, but doing a square is most common, then last pair, and finish with 2GLL.
It's not exactly the same as your concept, but it shares an almost identical idea.
 
AJT17 said:
There is CEOR which is a very similar method to APB, except you start by doing CP as the very first step while doing FB, then you do EO while solving DFDB, then you can solve the right side however you want, but doing a square is most common, then last pair, and finish with 2GLL.
It's not exactly the same as your concept, but it shares an almost identical idea.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah i remember looking at that method when i was gonna switch.
Is this the method with YruRU cp tracing or is that LEOR ?
Might look into both methods again, maybe something in them could help me improve my concept.

Thanks !
 
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