The New Method / Substep / Concept Idea Thread

[ProStar]

Thank you for the feedback. I will update the example solve later. Now, I have to work on my virtual bottle rocket for Tech Class. It may not be a good method for speed solving. But it might be for FMC.

Roux in general isn’t good for FMC because it’s measured in OBTM, not STM. I imagine this wouldn’t be any better since it’s just Roux FB/SB and then several M moves to solve the edges followed by OLL/PLL (very move inefficient)

 

[DuckubingCuber347]

don't use F or B more for second block
there are rare cases when algs with F moves are faster for SB

"Don't use F or B moves"
"F and B moves are faster sometimes"
???

You don't have to be Sean to use F moves in Roux, just don't be stupid with them. F moves in SB aren't really as rare as you think. Just be smart with it, brother.

 

[PiKeeper]

"Don't use F or B moves"
"F and B moves are faster sometimes"
???

You don't have to be Sean to use F moves in Roux, just don't be stupid with them. F moves in SB aren't really as rare as you think. Just be smart with it, brother.

Besides the rare F' U' F pair (or maybe a f' R f) pair too), I don't think you have many other good times to use F or f moves. RrUM is almost always faster and more consistent.

 

[Deleted member 36445]

Besides the rare F' U' F pair (or maybe a f' R f) pair too), I don't think you have many other good times to use F or f moves. RrUM is almost always faster and more consistent.

I was thinking in this case

 Twizzle link 

R' F R F' R U' R'

I saw the creator of roux using it in a solve, and I can't think of other examples. That's why I think it's rare and you should rely on standard SB

 

[Deleted member 36445]

TLDR: what about solving the last slot by inserting the corner while orienting top corners then insert last edge while orienting last edges?

------------------------

some possibilities:

solve last corner (5 cases, 2gen)
solve last edge + orient all pieces (I don't know the proper number of cases but close to 400)
pll

or

last corner wv (2gen, better algs than normal wv probably)
solve last edge while orienting top edges and preserving corners
pll

or

the same last method + solving the permutation of corners, leading into EPLL
but the number of cases will rise a lot and probably not worth it, pll is pretty well optimized and maybe with pll it will have fewer algs (?)




this method with eo: for eo methods like zz and petrus it may be worth it because that 2gen last corner solving can lead into insert last edge + cp and then epll

an alternative is:
last corner wv
pll+last edge

EDIT: I think this would be pretty similar to ZZCT

but I can't calculate the cases or generate the algs, I'm noob at batch solver
can anyone help and give suggestions, movecount analysis and case numbers?

--------------
Can anyone confirm if I'm bad at math or not?

cfop LS+LL:
42 f2l
57 oll
21 pll

= 120 cases
--

Last corner wv: cll shapes (26) + tcll+ shapes (35) + tcll- shapes (35) = 96

Spoiler: cases - (not the real algs)

Tcll- is missing in this algsheet

CubeRoot

www.cuberoot.me

eols + corners preserve = 21 cases

Spoiler: cases - (not the real algs)

MGLS - ELS - E, F, & R

cube.garron.us

pll = 21

= 138 cases

EDIT: yeah but you will have to know how to solve f2l anyway BUT... 2gen wv cases for first step is really interesting and the second step can have some potentially fast algs with slice moves...

--------------

 Twizzle link 

 Setup 

R U2 B2 R' U2 R U2 R B2 R2 U' F' U2 F R U2 R'

 Moves 

U R U2 R2 U2 R' U R2 U' R U2 R // wv
S2 R' U' S' U R U S U' S2 // eols
//pll

 Twizzle link 

 Setup 

R' L F R' L2 B L' D2 F D2 F' D2 F' D2 L2 B' R2

 Moves 

U' R U' R U2 R' U' R U' R2 // wv
R2 U2 S U S2 U R2 U2 S // eols
// pll

 Twizzle link 

 Setup 

F2 U L2 U F2 U F2 U2 L2 U' F2 R B U2 B' U2 R'

 Moves 

R2 U R' U R U2 R2 U' R U2 R' // wv
F U F' M' F U' F' M // eols
// pll

 

[PapaSmurf]

RBIEOP
(Pronounced Rib-iy-op)
RB- Roux Blocks: You Make 1x2x3 blocks in both sides of the cube like in the beginning of Roux
IE- Insert edges: You now have to insert 2 edges into the first layer where they belong.
OP- OLL & PLL: Do OLL and PLL(Or ZBLL if you have Yellow cross) normally like in CFOP

Example solve:

 Twizzle link 

 Setup 

L B2 R2 B2 D2 R2 F2 R B2 D2 U2 L' F D2 L F R' F2 D B2 U

 Moves 

B U2 B' R' U' R U L2 //1st Block
U' F R' F' B U B' U' B U2 B' U' B U B' U2 R U' R' z x M2 U' M' U' M' U' M' U2 M' U' M' U' M' U' //2nd Block 
z' y' U M' U' M // Insert Edges
U2 L' U2 (R U' R' U2) L R U' R' // ZBLL
U2 // AUF

RouxFOP is a more common name for this. It's worse than Roux and CFOP because it's less efficient and gives exactly 0 lookahead and TPS advantage (actually, a disadvantage in both of these departments). If it's faster for you than Roux, that's a skill issue on your part and not a problem with the method. Everyone has invented this method (see: the very first post on this thread, then countless others), sorry. Try again and you might find something unique, but it is a lot of trial and error before you come up with something that might be good, and even then it's probably not better than the big 4.

New method (haven't named it yet)
I have generated all the algs using batch solver.
Can anyone tell me how to import algs from batch solver into google sheets (with and without pictures)?

This is a bit like doing Roux, but instead of giving yourself CMLL+LSE, you give yourself COLL on R and L7E in an awkward spot.

Another way of looking at it...

Make the pairs in DR instead. While you're at it, solve the DR edge too. Then you're left with a better alg set. EO at this point is so much easier (M' U M flips 4 edges for example) and you can do it while influencing EP. Then EP should be incredibly short if you've done it well.

Or you could do the EO stuff, but solve the "stripe" first. Then RB, ZBLL. This is LEOR.

Sorry to rip into the methods here a bit, but that's how ideas get better. Take it as constructive criticism and a learning process. Just don't make your ideas who you are.

 

[V Achyuthan]

RouxFOP is a more common name for this. It's worse than Roux and CFOP because it's less efficient and gives exactly 0 lookahead and TPS advantage (actually, a disadvantage in both of these departments). If it's faster for you than Roux, that's a skill issue on your part and not a problem with the method. Everyone has invented this method (see: the very first post on this thread, then countless others), sorry. Try again and you might find something unique, but it is a lot of trial and error before you come up with something that might be good, and even then it's probably not better than the big 4.


This is a bit like doing Roux, but instead of giving yourself CMLL+LSE, you give yourself COLL on R and L7E in an awkward spot.

Another way of looking at it...

Make the pairs in DR instead. While you're at it, solve the DR edge too. Then you're left with a better alg set. EO at this point is so much easier (M' U M flips 4 edges for example) and you can do it while influencing EP. Then EP should be incredibly short if you've done it well.

Or you could do the EO stuff, but solve the "stripe" first. Then RB, ZBLL. This is LEOR.

Sorry to rip into the methods here a bit, but that's how ideas get better. Take it as constructive criticism and a learning process. Just don't make your ideas who you are.

Thanks for critiquing my method.

 

[Deleted member 36445]

stuff.

can you critique my method?

The New Method / Substep / Concept Idea Thread

Thank you for the feedback. I will update the example solve later. Now, I have to work on my virtual bottle rocket for Tech Class. It may not be a good method for speed solving. But it might be for FMC. Roux in general isn’t good for FMC because it’s measured in OBTM, not STM. I imagine this...

www.speedsolving.com

 

[Thom S.]

TLDR: what about solving the last slot by inserting the corner while orienting top corners then insert last edge while orienting last edges?

------------------------

some possibilities:

solve last corner (5 cases, 2gen)
solve last edge + orient all pieces (I don't know the proper number of cases but close to 400)
pll

or

last corner wv (2gen, better algs than normal wv probably)
solve last edge while orienting top edges and preserving corners
pll

or

the same last method + solving the permutation of corners, leading into EPLL
but the number of cases will rise a lot and probably not worth it, pll is pretty well optimized and maybe with pll it will have fewer algs (?)




this method with eo: for eo methods like zz and petrus it may be worth it because that 2gen last corner solving can lead into insert last edge + cp and then epll

an alternative is:
last corner wv
pll+last edge

EDIT: I think this would be pretty similar to ZZCT

but I can't calculate the cases or generate the algs, I'm noob at batch solver
can anyone help and give suggestions, movecount analysis and case numbers?

--------------
Can anyone confirm if I'm bad at math or not?

cfop LS+LL:
42 f2l
57 oll
21 pll

= 120 cases
--

Last corner wv: cll shapes (26) + tcll+ shapes (35) + tcll- shapes (35) = 96

Spoiler: cases - (not the real algs)

Tcll- is missing in this algsheet

CubeRoot

www.cuberoot.me

eols + corners preserve = 21 cases

Spoiler: cases - (not the real algs)

MGLS - ELS - E, F, & R

cube.garron.us

pll = 21

= 138 cases

EDIT: yeah but you will have to know how to solve f2l anyway BUT... 2gen wv cases for first step is really interesting and the second step can have some potentially fast algs with slice moves...

--------------

 Twizzle link 

 Setup 

R U2 B2 R' U2 R U2 R B2 R2 U' F' U2 F R U2 R'

 Moves 

U R U2 R2 U2 R' U R2 U' R U2 R // wv
S2 R' U' S' U R U S U' S2 // eols
//pll

 Twizzle link 

 Setup 

R' L F R' L2 B L' D2 F D2 F' D2 F' D2 L2 B' R2

 Moves 

U' R U' R U2 R' U' R U' R2 // wv
R2 U2 S U S2 U R2 U2 S // eols
// pll

 Twizzle link 

 Setup 

F2 U L2 U F2 U F2 U2 L2 U' F2 R B U2 B' U2 R'

 Moves 

R2 U R' U R U2 R2 U' R U2 R' // wv
F U F' M' F U' F' M // eols
// pll

I am so sure that this already exists, but slightly different, where you first insert and orient edges and then corners, then PLL. Because of movecount, esges are first.
I remember in like 2013-2015 that multiple people still used this form of LSLL, just can't remember the name

 

[Deleted member 36445]

I am so sure that this already exists, but slightly different, where you first insert and orient edges and then corners, then PLL. Because of movecount, esges are first.
I remember in like 2013-2015 that multiple people still used this form of LSLL, just can't remember the name

you mean MGLS by lucas garron and makisumi right?

 

[Thom S.]

you mean MGLS by lucas garron and makisumi right?

I believe so, yeah.

 

[OreKehStrah]

I am so sure that this already exists, but slightly different, where you first insert and orient edges and then corners, then PLL. Because of movecount, esges are first.
I remember in like 2013-2015 that multiple people still used this form of LSLL, just can't remember the name

MGLS

 

[DuckubingCuber347]

MGLS

Please don't respond to a post answering a question that has already been answered. Your answer didn't provide any new information that we didn't just learn; if you had read down one post you would see that not only was the method given but the names of the creator's also.

 

[OreKehStrah]

Please don't respond to a post answering a question that has already been answered. Your answer didn't provide any new information that we didn't just learn; if you had read down one post you would see that not only was the method given but the names of the creator's also.

I don’t see any other answers because I have people blocked on the forum I consider annoying. Maybe I should add you to that list as well.

 

[Deleted member 36445]

I don’t see any other answers because I have people blocked on the forum I consider annoying. Maybe I should add you to that list as well.

but if you blocked me, how did you not see my quote on @Thom S. post and you saw his other post?
something is fishy
I believe you just don't like to read

 

[PapaSmurf]

can you critique my method?

The New Method / Substep / Concept Idea Thread

Thank you for the feedback. I will update the example solve later. Now, I have to work on my virtual bottle rocket for Tech Class. It may not be a good method for speed solving. But it might be for FMC. Roux in general isn’t good for FMC because it’s measured in OBTM, not STM. I imagine this...

www.speedsolving.com

I think it has the same issue as MGLS in the sense that it's just restrictive. Yeah, you technically save one alg for LSLL, but at the expense of a better F2L and probably no efficienecy gain. If you always want to skip OLL, ZZ-C is your best shout tbh, but that is also suboptimal for ZZ.

 

[Deleted member 36445]

what about this?
seems like a fun method

Make a side on the bottom layer
Solve the middle layer
OLL
CP PBL
If needed, EP Parity (M2 U2 M2)
EP PBL
solved

 

[Jorian Meeuse]

what about this?
seems like a fun method

Make a side on the bottom layer
Solve the middle layer
OLL
CP PBL
If needed, EP Parity (M2 U M2)
EP PBL
solved

At least solve the side and the middle layer simultaneously, like F2L but you don't care what corner you use. This even makes for faster F2L on average because you have more options.
Also I'm assuming you meant M2 U2 M2.
I don't think the method would be much faster than CFOP because i don't expect the EP algs to be fast.

 

[Deleted member 36445]

At least solve the side and the middle layer simultaneously, like F2L but you don't care what corner you use. This even makes for faster F2L on average because you have more options.

It seems like a good idea, but if you try you will see that it's horrible for lookahead to do F2L this way because of blind spots and you can't tell if a corner it's solved or not.
(at least for me)

solving one side has more options and there are some algs that help to solve middle layer edges faster

Also I'm assuming you meant M2 U2 M2.

Yeah, I missed the 2. thanks. corrected

I don't think the method would be much faster than CFOP because i don't expect the EP algs to be fast.

C'mon dude, of course it's faster than CFOP
I got a sub20 dnf with this method using pll on both sides

 

[Jorian Meeuse]

It seems like a good idea, but if you try you will see that it's horrible for lookahead to do F2L this way because of blind spots and you can't tell if a corner it's solved or not.
(at least for me)

solving one side has more options and there are some algs that help to solve middle layer edges faster

Yeah, I missed the 2. thanks. corrected

C'mon dude, of course it's faster than CFOP
I got a sub20 dnf with this method using pll on both sides

Yeah of course look ahead is bad on this method because it's not what you're used to.