The New Method / Substep / Concept Idea Thread

[Thermex]

So does anybody want to work on the TEG algs with me? I think I'll do the minus set and whoever wants to jump in and generate algs for the plus set can work with me.
It would take us about a month if we each did a set a day (~5.5 algs per day) and it would take about two months if we each did a set every other day (~3 algs per day).
I'll accept anybody who's able to generate algorithms and knows what TEG is (twisty EG)

 

[efattah]

Maybe for starting TEG1 we could at least have Cale post his set of algorithms? I'm interested in TEG1 and I think it has a real future but I don't have a ton of time in the next few weeks to generate algorithms. Maybe after though.

 

[Thermex]

Maybe for starting TEG1 we could at least have Cale post his set of algorithms? I'm interested in TEG1 and I think it has a real future but I don't have a ton of time in the next few weeks to generate algorithms. Maybe after though.

Oh sure. I'll try to get him to post his set. How long until you'll have enough free time to start working? If it's not over 1-2 months I could start working on them now but only do a set like every three days or something and then you'd eventually catch up with me if you were offset by a month or so.
Also what program do you recommend using/will use for making these algs? I've never made 2×2 algs before.

 

[efattah]

I might have a little more time in 4 weeks but I can't make any promises. I use Cube Explorer to generate corner algorithms. They will work on either 2x2 or 3x3. Delete U/U'/U2 and D/D'/D2 at the end of any algorithm. Disable slice moves.

Edit: for fun I tried generating one algorithm, TEG1 (DLF-), spaceship, it turned out to be only 7 moves:
y' R2 U R2 U R' U R2 [7]

 

[Thermex]

I might have a little more time in 4 weeks but I can't make any promises. I use Cube Explorer to generate corner algorithms. They will work on either 2x2 or 3x3. Delete U/U'/U2 and D/D'/D2 at the end of any algorithm. Disable slice moves.

Edit: for fun I tried generating one algorithm, TEG1 (DLF-), spaceship, it turned out to be only 7 moves:
y' R2 U R2 U R' U R2 [7]

Oh cool, I thought of the same idea for generating 2×2 algs too, I just wasn't sure it would work (idk why I thought that). Hopefully you have time soon to generate some algs. As for me:

This week (spring break) April 2-8:
Completely finish the FRONT adjaceant swap minus set (~5.5 algs a day, I have lots of time since its spring break)

The last three weeks of April (9-29):
Finish the RIGHT adjaceant swap minus set (~2 algs per day)

All of May (I'm super busy in May since I have like 20 exams)
Finish the BACK adjaceant swap minus set (~1.3 algs per day)

The first three weeks of June (4-24) (giving myself three weeks because school's out on the 24th for me and I'll be on vacation for the last week of June)
Finish the LEFT adjaceant swap minus set (~2 algs per day)

This way I'll finish the full minus set in 3 months. If you're offset by a month you can catch up with me by doing one plus set every other day (~3 algs per day). Hopefully you have time for that.

All sound good?

 

[efattah]

I suggest a standardized naming system for TEG1

When DFR corner is twisted, facing you, it is TEG1 FR+.
When DFR corner is twisted, facing to the right, it is TEG1 FR-.
When DFL corner is twisted, facing you, it is TEG1 FL+.
When DFL corner is twisted, facing to the left, it is TEG1 FL-.

When BDR corner is twisted, facing away from you, it is TEG1 BR+.
When BDR corner is twisted, facing to the right, it is TEG1 BR-.
When BDL corner is twisted, facing away from you, it is TEG1 BL+.
When BDL corner is twisted, facing to the left, it is TEG1 BL-.

From the brief work I did it seems these algorithms are far easier to generate than anything involving slice moves. When I was generating Waterman optimization sets Cube Explorer would need to run for 12 hours to find one decent algorithm, most of these corner sets the solution is found in 3 seconds.

 

[Thermex]

I suggest a standardized naming system for TEG1

When DFR corner is twisted, facing you, it is TEG1 FR+.
When DFR corner is twisted, facing to the right, it is TEG1 FR-.
When DFL corner is twisted, facing you, it is TEG1 FL+.
When DFL corner is twisted, facing to the left, it is TEG1 FL-.

When BDR corner is twisted, facing away from you, it is TEG1 BR+.
When BDR corner is twisted, facing to the right, it is TEG1 BR-.
When BDL corner is twisted, facing away from you, it is TEG1 BL+.
When BDL corner is twisted, facing to the left, TEG1

From the brief work I did it seems these algorithms are far easier to generate than anything involving slice moves. When I was generating Waterman optimization sets Cube Explorer would need to run for 12 hours to find one decent algorithm, most of these corner sets the solution is found in 3 seconds.

I like that naming scheme. But 12 HOURS? For the three algorithms I've generated so far its taken my computer under a second to find the optimal solution. Heres the first 3 algs I made (these are DFR- hammer algs, the first three cases listed on cyotheking's TCLL- page)

R2 U' R' F' U' F' U' R2
(z) R' F R F2 R' F R F2
R2 U2 R' U2 R2' F R U' R'

So far I'm really liking this method.

Oh yeah is it okay if you give me your email? It's kind of a pain communicating through this thread.

 

[crafto22]

Is there any way we could implement L7EP in speedsolving? I just generated algs that solve FR + L6E in 16.43 moves on average. If there was some way to make this useful, that'd be cool, Also, "only" 53 algs.

 

[crafto22]

FML I just wasted an hour generating algs. Just realized L7EP can be solved in 15 moves or so intuitively...

 

[crafto22]

Actually might be good cuz intuitive is closer to 18 moves and this only requires two looks as oppose to three.

 

[crafto22]

Okay so here's my idea for implementing L7EP.
1. FB (8 moves)
2. Corners (10 moves)
3. Two redges (7 moves)
4. L7EO (7 moves)
5. L7EP (16 moves)
Total: 50 STM

Not exactly the most efficient approach... Any other ideas?

 

[Teoidus]

If you find a good way to do L7E, there is:

CPFB (11)
SBsq (7)
L5C (~10), 27 algs
L7E (X)

= X+28 avg movecount

 

[crafto22]

Another way to go about it would be:
1. Orient everything and solve 3 E-slice edges (15 moves)
2. Separate and permute corners (12 moves)
3. Roux blocks (5 moves)
4. L7EP (16 moves)

Total: 48 STM

 

[crafto22]

If you find a good way to do L7E, there is:

CPFB (11)
SBsq (7)
L5C (~10), 27 algs
L7E (X)

= X+28 avg movecount

That would be 23+28 = 51 avg movecount. What I am proposing is not ideal if orientation is not already solved.

 

[crafto22]

I was messing around with a non-matching LEG-1 WaterRoux variant and got this 24 STM solve. I lost the scramble, but since the solution was so short I still remember how it went:

"Scramble" generated by Cube Explorer: B2 R' D2 B2 R2 F2 D F2 U B' R' F' R2 B F U2 B' R' U'

y M' S U S' // FB (4/4)
R2 F' U2 F // Orient two R-layer corners at RD (4/8)
U' R2 U R' F R F' U R' // Non-matching LEG-1 + 3 accidentally solved redges (10/18)
M' U2 M' U M U r2 // LMCF L6E (6/24)

24 moves/13.689 seconds = 1.75 tps (im so fast lol)

 

[shadowslice e]

Is there any way we could implement L7EP in speedsolving? I just generated algs that solve FR + L6E in 16.43 moves on average. If there was some way to make this useful, that'd be cool, Also, "only" 53 algs.

With SSC?
EoEdge: 7
CO+belt: 9
CP+1 solved edge: 8
L7E: 16
40 movesish

 

[crafto22]

With SSC?
EoEdge: 7
CO+belt: 9
CP+1 solved edge: 8
L7E: 16
40 movesish

Wait a minute this could be really really good.
EoEdge: Always closer to 6 for me
CO+Belt: 9
CP+1 edge: 8
Reduce to L5EP: 7
L5EP: 7
AUFs throughout the solve: 2
Sub-40 moves

 

[Shiv3r]

guys TEG seems like a decent Idea.

 

[efattah]

I was messing around with a non-matching LEG-1 WaterRoux variant and got this 24 STM solve. I lost the scramble, but since the solution was so short I still remember how it went:

"Scramble" generated by Cube Explorer: B2 R' D2 B2 R2 F2 D F2 U B' R' F' R2 B F U2 B' R' U'

y M' S U S' // FB (4/4)
R2 F' U2 F // Orient two R-layer corners at RD (4/8)
U' R2 U R' F R F' U R' // Non-matching LEG-1 + 3 accidentally solved redges (10/18)
M' U2 M' U M U r2 // LMCF L6E (6/24)

24 moves/13.689 seconds = 1.75 tps (im so fast lol)

This is pretty insane!! FYI even during LMCF, starting with the corners, believe it or not I have had FIVE randomly solved L/R edges more times than I can remember, leaving either (A) one pair then L5E, or (B) one edge then L6E.

I re-did the above scramble using matching LEG-1 (more classic style), and the result was 41 STM
y M' S U S' // FB (4/4)
U' R U R2 U' // yellow corners
R2 U R' U' F R2 F' U R' U // LEG-1 L case
M U' M' U2 M U' // E2L pair
M' R' r' U2 r U' M' U R' U2 // Waterman Set 2
r' U2 M' U2 R L2 // permute midges
41 STM

(This version had only 1 randomly solved redge).

 

[efattah]

With all the talk of TEG1, I realized TLEG1 could be a game changer for WaterRoux. With TLEG1 it becomes possible on many solves to see the entire first block AND the corner solve in 1-look. It still takes an expert to do so, but this would finally resolve the last hurdle of Roux which is to put the CMLL recognition into the inspection phase; while still maintaining a lower move count than regular Roux, by a quite significant amount.

Better still, you don't need full TEG1 for WaterRoux since the left block is always solved, so you only need four TLEG1 sets, L+, L-, R+, and R-, as well as normal LEG1 and CMLL optimized for an unconstrained left block. So this would be 252 corner algorithms in order to be 'in range' of a 1-look solve of the left block and all the corners. An example:

Scramble:
B2 R' D2 B2 R2 F2 D F2 U B' R' F' R2 B F U2 B' R' U'
y M' S U S' // FB (4/4)
R2 U' R' // yellow corners (or JUST R' if you solve the white corners)
// Now solve corners with TLEG1, L+ set
[I would comment that if you are good enough to solve with non-matching corner sets, it only takes 1 move to put the white corners in, meaning just 5 moves to 1-look the corners and first block]

In the above example we need to see 7 moves into the future in order to 1-look the yellow corners which is hard but within range of a master (or 5 moves to 1-look the yellow/white not matching corners). After that, there are just 5 L/R edges left, of which we need to solve 3 in order to reach LSE. However half the time one is already solved at random, meaning we are one E2L pair away from LSE. Allowing no constraints on where this pair is, sometimes this pair solves the UL slot and a random redge, putting us into a Waterman L6E situation. However, I have started optimizing the Waterman L6E sets, and Waterman Set 2 is the one that occurs most often by far, and I have so far optimized it to an amazing 9.4 moves while improving the speed and ergonomics of the algorithms. So even in the situation where you end up with UL solved, it means in most cases you can solve the last two redges and orient the midges in less than 10 moves, or 11 moves if you include 1 set up move.

If you 1-look the first block and corners, this is around 15-17 moves at essentially max TPS since you know exactly what to do; so this could be 1.7 seconds. Then you solve one E2L pair in 1 second, then you finish with either Roux EOLR, LMCF L6E, or Waterman L6E, the worst case being around 2 seconds for that operation. So a 1-look solve would be around 4.7 seconds for an expert.

As WaterRoux-TLEG1 cuts at least 1-2 more moves off the average move count, then it will be even lower than regular WaterRoux, which was already lower than Roux. But the bigger advantage is being able to 1-look the corners.