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PiKeeper

Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2021
Messages
96
Thats not my point, I'm fully aware it's not going to revolutionize ZZ, but why do you think things like CT exist? They aren't viable but they have intriguing ideas that keep them relevant, even if theyre a meme. My point is that this a genuinely interesting idea and people instead are praising shitty amalgamations of methods (see the reply by Cubing Forever literally right above this) that don't bring any novel ideas. MethodNeutral had a genuinely intriguing idea for a unique approach to "ZZ"F2L and Im just amazed that people decided to skip over that and reply to Insert shitty F2L/F2L-1/F2L-1e/F2B/LSLL method here.
I'm not sure what you mean by people praising non-novel methods. The reply you talked about is literally Cubing Forever dismissing that method as bad.
 

SciKE

Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2021
Messages
11
Location
USA
In general, people skip over ZZ altogether since most people think the method sucks, which is a shame.
Very much a shame. A lot of methods are very viable and deserve a decent following. Anyone who isn't in the ZMS discord server should definitely join, its a great server.

I'm not sure what you mean by people praising non-novel methods. The reply you talked about is literally Cubing Forever dismissing that method as bad.
Exactly, those methods are getting feedback while the method I quoted got a couple reactions and thats about it.
 

Z1hc

Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2021
Messages
16
Location
309 Ben brown ln Woodburn or
I might have a variation of LSFB from speed solving wiki:
(For this explanation make sure to have yellow as your bottom face.)
First step: make a 1x2x2 block at bd[R].
Second step: make another 1x2x2 block but at bd[L].
Now it should look like roux F2B right left but without the front 2 F2L pairs.

Third step: orient the L6C. They can be 2 gen if you choose to.

Fourth step: If you have your 1x2x2 blocks in the back with them in the first 2 layers then you can solve FL and FR but you dont really need to care about permuting them. Kind of like a square 1 middle slice.
Fifth step: Orient L6E while putting a yellow edge in BD.
Sixth step: this step is 2 gen and intuitive. Turn the cube so the two 1x2x2 blocks are at LD. Then you make a 1x1x3 yellow bar (doesent need to be a completed bar) and also solve the middle bar from step 4.

Seventh step: You can either permute everything in one algorithm (around 150?) or do 2 look way.
 

Ninjascoccer

Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2021
Messages
33
Location
Pangea
YouTube
Visit Channel
I just came up with this idea.
I realised it’s just SSC without EO but I’m posting it anyway(I took 10 minutes coming up with this don’t judge)
So basically,
First you make 3 quarters belt
Then you solve the remaining D layer corners (the last one separating edges and using WV)
Then EZD
 
Last edited:

V Achyuthan

Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2020
Messages
169
Feel free to let me know if I am dumb for inventing a method that already exists
So yesterday I came up with a method that goes like this (have no idea what to name it) :
EO
F2L (yes without cross)
solve top corners while preserving EO
Solve Midges in 1 look
Rotate and Solve S layer which is now the M layer 1 look

Here are some example solves
B2 U R2 D F2 D2 R2 F2 R2 B2 F2 U' F' U2 B' L D F' D2 L2 F U'
F R B D L U' F x2 // EO
D U' R D' // BR pair
R U2 R' // FR pair
U2 L D' L U2 L' S' U2 S D L' U2 L // BL and FL pair
R2 D' R U R' D R U R U' R' U' R // COLL
U2 R D2 M' D2 L F' M2 F R2 x // Midges
y' M' U2 M U2 // Rotate and solve S layer edges
53 STM

L2 R2 B F2 R2 U2 B F2 L2 F' U2 F' R U F2 R' D' L B' L2 U'
B' D R' U R F // EO
L2 // FL pair
R2 U L U L' // BL pair
D R' U2 R D' // FR pair
U' M' U2 r' U' R2 U2 R D R' U2 R D' R2 // BR pair cancelled into COLL
U R2 F2 U2 M2 U M2 U F2 R2 // Midges
y' M' F2 M F2 // Rotate and solve S layer edges
45 STM

This method averages around 47 moves. (All algs not generated yet).
Thank you
 

V Achyuthan

Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2020
Messages
169
If this was a real method, the italic text would be the hardest parts.
only solving Midges would be somewhat hard because you have to look at the bottom. the other two are easy. solving corners is just COLL and Solving S layer edges is just roux L4E or L3E
 

PiKeeper

Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2021
Messages
96
I'm pretty sure this columns first variant has already been mostly proposed by others but dismissed because it's bad. Lookahead sucks during F2L, COLL isn't that great of an algset, and solving midges has bad lookahead and is not ergonomic.
 

V Achyuthan

Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2020
Messages
169
I'm pretty sure this columns first variant has already been mostly proposed by others but dismissed because it's bad. Lookahead sucks during F2L, COLL isn't that great of an algset, and solving midges has bad lookahead and is not ergonomic.
oh k.
 

V Achyuthan

Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2020
Messages
169
Alright, don't get angry with me for bringing up another method (fell free to call me dumb for inventing another method that already exists)
I came up with this in like 10 min.
Steps
Solve a 1x1x3 (should be connected to the centres) and place it in DL position
Belt
EO
6CO
6CP
Insert the cross edge that goes between the two corners on the right thus creating another 1x1x3. align both the 1x1x3s to their respective centres using u / u' / u2.
Solve LSE like Roux.

Here are some examples
B2 D F2 L2 D2 B2 R2 F2 U' B2 D' F' R B' L B2 F U2 R' U'
y' L2 U' L' // 1x1x3
R' U' R' u2 U R M R U R' M' // Belt
M2 U' M U' M // EO
U' R' U2 R U R2 U' R U2 R // 6CO
U' x U2 R' D' R U2 R' D R x' // 6CP
D2 // Roux F2B with EO and CMLL done
M' U2 M U M' U2 M2 U2 M' U // LSE
49 STM

U2 D' L D' B L2 F B2 U B' D2 R2 F2 L2 F2 D2 L2 B' U2 B' D2
x2 y L' B2 // 1x1x3
u' R2 u R2 u R // Belt
M' U' R2 U R' r' // EO
U D' R U R' U2 R U R' D // 6CO
U2 R2 D' R2 U R2 U' R2 U' D R2 U R2 // 6CP
M2 U' S' U2 S M2 u' // Roux F2B with EO and CMLL done
M U2 M U' M' U2 M' // LSE / L5E
51 STM

D' F' B D2 B U' B D2 L' B' L2 D2 F' L2 F L2 F' U2 L2 D2 B
F U' L' F2 y // 1x1x3
U' R u' U' R u' R2 r2 R U R' r2 // Belt
M R2 U' M r2 // EO
U' R' D' R U R' D R // 6CO
U' R U2 R' D' R' D R' D' R' U2 R' // 6CP
U2 M' U2 M D // Roux F2B with EO and CMLL done
U M' U2 M U x' U2 M U2 M' // LSE
55 STM

D' L2 R2 D F2 R2 D2 F2 L2 F2 R2 U F R B2 R2 D' B' F R' U
x2 F2 U F' // 1x1x3
u' U2 R' u2 R' U R' u' R U R' // Belt
U M2 U' M U' M // EO
R D' R U' R' D R' // CO
U F U F' R2 F U' F' U' R2 // 6CP
S' U2 S u2 // Roux F2B with EO and CMLL done
M U2 M' U' M2 U' M U2 M U' // LSE / L5E
51 STM

U L2 U' L2 R2 U' F2 L2 B2 D F2 U2 B' R' F2 L' U' B L2 U2 B' R'
y2 x D2 B U2 L // 1x1x3
u R' u2 R' U' R' u2 r2 B U2 B' r2 // Belt
M' U' M' U M U' M // EO
U' R2 U2 R' U R' U R U2 R' // 6CO
U2 F U F' R2 F U' F' U2 R2 // 6CP
S' U2 S u // Roux F2B with EO and CMLL done
M U2 M U' M' U2 M U2 M2 U2 // LSE
57 STM

U B2 F2 U2 B2 U' L2 U' R2 U2 L2 F' R U' F' D L' D B D2 F'
U B U' F2 // 1x1x3
r U' r' u U' R' u R u R U' R' // Belt
U' M2 U' M U' M // EO
R U' R' U R' U R' U' R // 6CO
R2 U' D' R2 U R2 U' R2 // 6CP
S' M' U M U2 S // Roux F2B with EO and CMLL done
U' M' U2 M U' // Somehow left with L3E
50 STM

F' L2 D2 L2 U2 F' R2 F' D2 F R2 B2 L U2 B' F R' D' F' D L
x' D2 L // 1x1x3
U' R2 U' R' u2 R2 U' R' // Belt
U R F R2 F' R // EO
R2 U2 R' U R' U2 R U R' // 6CO
U' R2 U R2 U R2 D R2 U' R2 U R2 // 6CP
D' // Roux F2B with EO and CMLL done
M' U2 M U M' U2 M2 U2 M' U' // LSE
48 STM

L' F2 D2 F2 U2 F2 R' B2 F2 R' F2 L' F' R U2 B' F' U' L' F U2
x' y U' L' // 1x1x3
u R u' R2 u' R U R' // Belt
U' F' L' F U F L F' D' // EO
U2 R U' R U2 R' U R' U R U R' // 6CO
U2 R2 U R2 U' D R2 U' R2 U R2 D' R2 // 6CP
S' M' U' M S u2 // Roux F2B with EO and CMLL done
M U2 M' U' M' U2 M U' // LSE
58 STM

U' L2 B2 D R2 B2 L2 F2 D2 U' R2 U2 F U' L D2 B2 D' B F' L
y2 U' B2 U2 F2 // 1x1x3
u R2 U2 R u2 U2 R2 M U R' M2 U' M // Belt + EO
R' D' R U' R' D R // 6CO
U2 D' R U' R' U2 D R2 U2 R2 D' R U R' // 6CP
D2 y M2 U2 M2 S' M' U M U2 S U' // LSE (But not Roux style)
49 STM

U2 F2 L2 D' B2 D F2 L2 U F2 R2 F2 L' B2 D' L U B2 D2 B' R2 F
x' y' R2 U L // 1x1x3
u' R2 u R2 u r' U r // Belt
U2 M' U' M // EO
U2 R2 U2 R' U R' U2 R U R' // 6CO
R2 U D R2 U' R2 U R2 // 6CP
y M2 U S' U2 S // Roux FB with EO and CMLL done
U' M2 U M2 U M' D2 M' D2 // LSE
47 STM

Average movecount = 51.5 STM
 
Last edited:

tsmosher

Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2020
Messages
649
Alright, don't get angry with me for bringing up another method (fell free to call me dumb for inventing another method that already exists)
I came up with this in like 10 min.
Steps
Solve a 1x1x3 (should be connected to the centres) and place it in DL position
Belt
EO
6CO
6CP
Insert the cross edge that goes between the two corners on the right thus creating another 1x1x3. align both the 1x1x3s to their respective centres using u / u' / u2.
Solve LSE like Roux.

Here are some examples
B2 D F2 L2 D2 B2 R2 F2 U' B2 D' F' R B' L B2 F U2 R' U'
y' L2 U' L' // 1x1x3
R' U' R' u2 U R M R U R' M' // Belt
M2 U' M U' M // EO
U' R' U2 R U R2 U' R U2 R // 6CO
U' x U2 R' D' R U2 R' D R x' // 6CP
D2 // Roux F2B with EO and CMLL done
M' U2 M U M' U2 M2 U2 M' U // LSE
49 STM

U2 D' L D' B L2 F B2 U B' D2 R2 F2 L2 F2 D2 L2 B' U2 B' D2
x2 y L' B2 // 1x1x3
u' R2 u R2 u R // Belt
M' U' R2 U R' r' // EO
U D' R U R' U2 R U R' D // 6CO
U2 R2 D' R2 U R2 U' R2 U' D R2 U R2 // 6CP
M2 U' S' U2 S M2 u' // Roux F2B with EO and CMLL done
M U2 M U' M' U2 M' // LSE / L5E
51 STM

D' F' B D2 B U' B D2 L' B' L2 D2 F' L2 F L2 F' U2 L2 D2 B
F U' L' F2 y // 1x1x3
U' R u' U' R u' R2 r2 R U R' r2 // Belt
M R2 U' M r2 // EO
U' R' D' R U R' D R // 6CO
U' R U2 R' D' R' D R' D' R' U2 R' // 6CP
U2 M' U2 M D // Roux F2B with EO and CMLL done
U M' U2 M U x' U2 M U2 M' // LSE
55 STM

D' L2 R2 D F2 R2 D2 F2 L2 F2 R2 U F R B2 R2 D' B' F R' U
x2 F2 U F' // 1x1x3
u' U2 R' u2 R' U R' u' R U R' // Belt
U M2 U' M U' M // EO
R D' R U' R' D R' // CO
U F U F' R2 F U' F' U' R2 // 6CP
S' U2 S u2 // Roux F2B with EO and CMLL done
M U2 M' U' M2 U' M U2 M U' // LSE / L5E
51 STM

U L2 U' L2 R2 U' F2 L2 B2 D F2 U2 B' R' F2 L' U' B L2 U2 B' R'
y2 x D2 B U2 L // 1x1x3
u R' u2 R' U' R' u2 r2 B U2 B' r2 // Belt
M' U' M' U M U' M // EO
U' R2 U2 R' U R' U R U2 R' // 6CO
U2 F U F' R2 F U' F' U2 R2 // 6CP
S' U2 S u // Roux F2B with EO and CMLL done
M U2 M U' M' U2 M U2 M2 U2 // LSE
57 STM

U B2 F2 U2 B2 U' L2 U' R2 U2 L2 F' R U' F' D L' D B D2 F'
U B U' F2 // 1x1x3
r U' r' u U' R' u R u R U' R' // Belt
U' M2 U' M U' M // EO
R U' R' U R' U R' U' R // 6CO
R2 U' D' R2 U R2 U' R2 // 6CP
S' M' U M U2 S // Roux F2B with EO and CMLL done
U' M' U2 M U' // Somehow left with L3E
50 STM

F' L2 D2 L2 U2 F' R2 F' D2 F R2 B2 L U2 B' F R' D' F' D L
x' D2 L // 1x1x3
U' R2 U' R' u2 R2 U' R' // Belt
U R F R2 F' R // EO
R2 U2 R' U R' U2 R U R' // 6CO
U' R2 U R2 U R2 D R2 U' R2 U R2 // 6CP
D' // Roux F2B with EO and CMLL done
M' U2 M U M' U2 M2 U2 M' U' // LSE
48 STM

L' F2 D2 F2 U2 F2 R' B2 F2 R' F2 L' F' R U2 B' F' U' L' F U2
x' y U' L' // 1x1x3
u R u' R2 u' R U R' // Belt
U' F' L' F U F L F' D' // EO
U2 R U' R U2 R' U R' U R U R' // 6CO
U2 R2 U R2 U' D R2 U' R2 U R2 D' R2 // 6CP
S' M' U' M S u2 // Roux F2B with EO and CMLL done
M U2 M' U' M' U2 M U' // LSE
58 STM

U' L2 B2 D R2 B2 L2 F2 D2 U' R2 U2 F U' L D2 B2 D' B F' L
y2 U' B2 U2 F2 // 1x1x3
u R2 U2 R u2 U2 R2 M U R' M2 U' M // Belt + EO
R' D' R U' R' D R // 6CO
U2 D' R U' R' U2 D R2 U2 R2 D' R U R' // 6CP
D2 y M2 U2 M2 S' M' U M U2 S U' // LSE (But not Roux style)
49 STM

U2 F2 L2 D' B2 D F2 L2 U F2 R2 F2 L' B2 D' L U B2 D2 B' R2 F
x' y' R2 U L // 1x1x3
u' R2 u R2 u r' U r // Belt
U2 M' U' M // EO
U2 R2 U2 R' U R' U2 R U R' // 6CO
R2 U D R2 U' R2 U R2 // 6CP
y M2 U S' U2 S // Roux FB with EO and CMLL done
U' M2 U M2 U M' D2 M' D2 // LSE
47 STM

Average movecount = 51.5 STM
I've had this idea many times with different finishes. The thing that makes this method hard to make viable would be 6CO/6CP algs which generally aren't the best. (A lot of R2 and such.) Not a terrible idea.

EDIT: For example, you could ignore edges and leave L7E for the end with this approach. Things like that.
 

V Achyuthan

Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2020
Messages
169
I've had this idea many times with different finishes. The thing that makes this method hard to make viable would be 6CO/6CP algs which generally aren't the best. (A lot of R2 and such.) Not a terrible idea.
You mean this method is not a terrible idea?
EDIT: For example, you could ignore edges and leave L7E for the end with this approach. Things like that.
I will work on that. I will probably leave L7EP for the end.
 
Last edited:

PiKeeper

Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2021
Messages
96
I would say this method is just a worse roux. Basically if you take out the pointless eo step in the middle and use dcal+cdrll to solve corners (better algs than 6CO+6CP) You have essentially just made up a different way to do SB.
 
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