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(New) What cubes should be added to the WCA events list?

What cubes should be added to the WCA?

  • Curvy copter

  • Team blind

  • 2x2 OH

  • 2 3x3's at once/double OH

  • kilominx

  • ghost cube

  • mirror cube

  • redi cube and mosaic cube

  • master kilominx

  • gear cube


Results are only viewable after voting.

Kit Clement

Premium Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Messages
1,303
Location
Portland, OR
WCA
2008CLEM01
YouTube
KitClement
So do you think as for now no events should be added?
After seeing great support for Skewb pre-2014 only for the event to become disliked by many (even some of those who originally supported it), I'd really like to see consistent support and development through holding events unofficially at comps before truly considering them as potential official events.
 

aerocube

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
214
You guys are kidding right? No one averages less than 24 or 17 on those puzzles respectively; saying the best people take [UWR single time] isn't very fair. Both puzzles are sufficiently complicated and have enough pieces that averages would never be based primarily on luck.
i'm worried that for master pyraminx people could find a method that trivializes it
i think kilominx is a good event though,and would be a nice one to add if another event is ever removed
 
Joined
Jan 15, 2019
Messages
905
the best people at master pyraminx take less than 13 seconds, while the best people at kilominx/kibiminx takes less than 11 seconds.
i'm worried that for master pyraminx people could find a method that trivializes it
i think kilominx is a good event though,and would be a nice one to add if another event is ever removed
Current UWR takes longer to solve a master pyraminx than a kilominx/kibiminx. Also, it is good to see developments on solving methods.
 

Iwannaganx

Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2019
Messages
465
Location
Victoria, Australia
Current UWR takes longer to solve a master pyraminx than a kilominx/kibiminx. Also, it is good to see developments on solving methods.
Quick note, I have never solved either of these puzzles.
But I feel the master pyraminx looks harder than the kilominx. Just my thoughts, from literally just looking at both these puzzles. Just thinking, a 4x4 version of a pyraminx would be harder than a 2x2 version on a megamix.
 
Joined
Jan 15, 2019
Messages
905
Quick note, I have never solved either of these puzzles.
But I feel the master pyraminx looks harder than the kilominx. Just my thoughts, from literally just looking at both these puzzles. Just thinking, a 4x4 version of a pyraminx would be harder than a 2x2 version on a megamix.
kilo minx is really fun and fast to do. the main thing that keeps me back is how bad the hardware is
Master pyraminx has good hardware already. QiYi and Sheng Shou have made good turning master pyraminxes.
 

xyzzy

Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2015
Messages
1,585
kilo minx is really fun and fast to do. the main thing that keeps me back is how bad the hardware is
1. take a megaminx
2. remove stickers/caps on all edges and centres
3. get best kilominx

I kinda want to get two Galaxy v2 Ms to make a magnetic stickerless kilominx but spending $60 for a novelty puzzle I'd barely solve is maybe a bit too much, lol.
 
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
1,743
Location
Literally nowhere
Master Pyraminx and kilominx/kibiminx should be added to the WCA events.
If master pyra is added, I would be ok with that, but probably wouldn’t compete in it.

However, I’d disagree with kibiminx. It would qhickly become trivial and luck based and it also doesn’t really add anything new to the wca. Im all for curvy copter though, hsving an edge turning puzzle in the WCA would be pretty cool.
 
Joined
Jan 15, 2019
Messages
905
i'm worried that for master pyraminx people could find a method that trivializes it
i think kilominx is a good event though,and would be a nice one to add if another event is ever removed
If master pyra is added, I would be ok with that, but probably wouldn’t compete in it.

However, I’d disagree with kibiminx. It would qhickly become trivial and luck based and it also doesn’t really add anything new to the wca. Im all for curvy copter though, hsving an edge turning puzzle in the WCA would be pretty cool.
Please justify this statement. Why would it become "trivial" or "luck-based"?
If you say master pyraminx is trivial, pyraminx is even more trivial, but I don't think pyraminx should be removed from the WCA. It is fine to add master pyraminx to the WCA. If you say kilominx/kibiminx is trivial, 2x2 is even more trivial, but I don't think 2x2 should be removed from the WCA. It is fine to add kilominx/kibiminx to the WCA. I don't think puzzles being trivial is an issue.
 

DesertWolf

Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2018
Messages
26
Location
Abu Dhabi, UAE
WCA
2017DUMM01
YouTube
DesertWolf 1205
Ok so i'm gonna throw in my opinion cause why not... I personally feel that the 18 events we had were fine and that there was no need for change but after a bit i've come to accept the removal of feet being some of the benefits during major competitions and having achieved what i wanted to with it.
Now for adding events, I'm completely against adding any event where the current UWR is sub-30 even sub-50 for the matter the reason is usually that the event has been strongly developed and is already reaching levels where it basically be skewb all over again (not as much for the times but more the fact that the only change the event had was hardware no new methods discovered etc...) or it can also mean that said event is extremely trivial and basically become an immediate 2x2 as soon as it's added. On the other hand i feel also extension of events like 8x8/9x9 6x6 BLD etc shouldn't be added as down the line its use in the WCA would be questioned and they'd add nothing to the WCA as a whole. For me personally i never really cared about the curvy copter but after reading more about these puzzles i feel out of the existent ones alongside maybe the time machine or those sorts of cubes they'd be the only ones i wouldn't mind being added. This said i personally feel that if we were to add an event it have to be something new different still with a similar basis (it being a twisty puzzle) but different mechanics that maybe outside a beginners method nothing else has been found and that'd create a great push for development and basically reward people that have been working on them a lot (theory wise) by them basically being faster than the rest. Obviously with the passage of time people would learn these methods and catch up and the event would eventually stale like other current events but if it were to have this nature that be a lot more time than say Kilominx which it'd basically stale 1 year after it being added if not less.
 

aerocube

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2019
Messages
214
If you say master pyraminx is trivial, pyraminx is even more trivial, but I don't think pyraminx should be removed from the WCA. It is fine to add master pyraminx to the WCA. If you say kilominx/kibiminx is trivial, 2x2 is even more trivial, but I don't think 2x2 should be removed from the WCA. It is fine to add kilominx/kibiminx to the WCA. I don't think puzzles being trivial is an issue.
i am ok with the 3 trivial events that already exist
the reason i worry about events with already short UWRs is that i don't think we need any more quick event
kilominx would work well though,i don't know what it's better to be good at,mega or 2x2
 
Joined
Jan 15, 2019
Messages
905
i am ok with the 3 trivial events that already exist
the reason i worry about events with already short UWRs is that i don't think we need any more quick event
kilominx would work well though,i don't know what it's better to be good at,mega or 2x2
What about master pyraminx? There are good hardware already. At least it is not as trivial as a pyraminx. The current UWR of master pyraminx is even longer than kilominx/kibiminx. If kilominx/kibiminx would work, master pyraminx would also work.
 

Wish Lin

Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2019
Messages
482
Location
Taipei, Taiwan
WCA
2018LINW02
What about master pyraminx? There are good hardware already. At least it is not as trivial as a pyraminx. The current UWR of master pyraminx is even longer than kilominx/kibiminx. If kilominx/kibiminx would work, master pyraminx would also work.
The reason these events have to be thought very, very carefully before adding has been explained by Kit Clement in his post above.
 

xyzzy

Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2015
Messages
1,585
(not as much for the times but more the fact that the only change the event had was hardware no new methods discovered etc...)
I kinda agree with this in principle, but this also seems to already be true for most, if not all, of the current WCA events. FMC is the only one that seems to have had an actual paradigm shift (domino reduction!) in the past two years, while everything else is the same old methods, but done better than before.

---

(Unrelated to above reply.) Some thoughts regarding master pyraminx:

Pros:
- it's not a super long event that will seriously impact competition schedules (compared to e.g. FMC, 5BLD, 777)
- scrambles aren't very long (22-ish moves with my two-phase scrambler)
- easy to learn
- not "trivial" (as in, it's almost never 1-lookable, short of tracing cycles)

Cons:
- almost everyone is using the same method (reduction); very little method development so far and possibly very little room for method development (contrast skewb's gigantic list of methods)
- arguably not long enough; it seems that the fastest people are sub-20 already
- doesn't seem to have a lot of community interest
 

PapaSmurf

Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2018
Messages
421
WCA
2016TUDO02
YouTube
PapaSmurf Cubes
I'm gonna go through each event and speak my mind. I haven't read the past 7 pages, but from what I can tell everyone has got to the same point of any new event will be hard for comps and they're quite niche.
Curvy copter: It would be super unique as it is edge turning, jumbles and so far is super underdeveloped. If a random state scrambler is made and there was somehow spare time at a comp, it would be a great addition.
Team blind: It's really fun but really hard to regulate and probably wouldn't work super well, which is a shame because I enjoy it. It would also be very loud.
2x2 OH: Lol why?
Double 3x3 OH: Lol why?
Kilominx: It fills in the gap between 15 and 30 seconds and is a lot more accessible than 3bld. A lot of people have them and the hardware is already alright. There's a lot more room for method improvement than compared to skewb and is really fun. It also has a random state scrambler and support.
Ghost cube: 3x3 shape mod. Enough said.
Mirror cube: See: Ghost cube.
Redi cube and mosaic cube: Firstly, redi is super repetitive, already developed and not unique. It's a pyraminx/skewb turned into a cube and imo skewb is the worst event. Please no redi cube ever. Mosaic cube, don't know a lot about it, but it looks like a slightly more complicated redi cube. So no.
Master Kilominx: No for the same reason as 8x8 or anything else large. Too big and too much time in an already cramped schedule. Also, scrambling will be an big issue.
Gear cube: Why? Already has fast times and no community momentum.

On the practical element: we do need to remove events to allow for new ones. As time is a big issue, I think that 7x7 is a good one to remove due to pretty much everyone (bar the best) taking a long time, therefore making the rounds too long. I'd also therefore be a fan of removing 6x6 as it's just 6x6 (or even remove 6x6 and keep 7x7), but that's more just because of my dislike of 6x6. I'd also be a fan of removing skewb because it's redundant as it's the third trivial event with the least claim (as it's not a face turning platonic solid and it's not in the "cube line"). That would allow time for something like Kilominx. I'm a fan of feet as it's very unique and I also think that clock should stay for the same reason. The rest of the events also work and I think they should all stay.

TL;dr
Curvy copter and kilominx are the most viable. Remove 7x7 and skewb.
 
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