[Help Thread] F2L Discussion and Help

[Username: Username:]

That was obvious from my previous post.

oof misread, I'm not a native English speaker lol

 

[Chinmay47]

Sorry wdym?

I meant that its true that the algorithmic version of the F2L is quite unintuitive. But then, there has to be a solution to it.

 

[Chinmay47]

This is a great video showing every F2L case.

And if you don't want to rewatch the video every time you get one of those F2L cases you aren't sure how to solve efficiently the same person made a PDF of all the cases:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nzAXYUWZJ6H2wIOXaHdWXep3W57tArbR/view

This is JPERM actually! One of the best YouCubers I've ever seen on the Web! I owe almost everything I know about speedcubing to him! He is the best cuber out on YouTube, presenting as a really tough competent to other Youcubers like Cubehead and JRcuber!

 

[Chinmay47]

Watch a lot of example solves: you will learn new efficient ways to pair pieces

Thanks a lot buddy! I will try that out soon!

 

[EngiNerdBrian]

I meant that its true that the algorithmic version of the F2L is quite unintuitive. But then, there has to be a solution to it.

I am focusing alot on my F2L right now also. I think the key is to not just spam your algorithms but see WHAT THEY ARE DOING TO THE CUBE. Ask your self how the algorithm works or why your solution to each case works. Track your pieces to see how it works at first and then focus on speed. Does this algorithm separate the pair directly into a 3 move insert? Does it hide the edge to pair the pieces or hide the corner to pair the pieces? Does the algorithm just set up one F2L case into another? Etc. I think seeing these relationships is what will help you recognize and get better and intuitive F2L from all angles and not just the front right (presumably) slot.

 

[Chinmay47]

I am focusing alot on my F2L right now also. I think the key is to not just spam your algorithms but see WHAT THEY ARE DOING TO THE CUBE. Ask your self how the algorithm works or why your solution to each case works. Track your pieces to see how it works at first and then focus on speed. Does this algorithm separate the pair directly into a 3 move insert? Does it hide the edge to pair the pieces or hide the corner to pair the pieces? Does the algorithm just set up one F2L case into another? Etc. I think seeing these relationships is what will help you recognize and get better and intuitive F2L from all angles and not just the front right (presumably) slot.

You are quite right dude! I pretty much agree with what you just said and will try to do the same soon! But frankly speaking, I don't know what you mean by the terms 3 move insert and all that! Could you please lend me a helping hand?

 

[Deleted member 51471]

I used this tutorial, and it's good enough to get you sub-30 or sub-20

 

[EngiNerdBrian]

A 3 move move insert is when you have your pieces arranged in the top layer such that you can pair and insert the pair in 3 moves usually R U R' or L' U' L.

Here is an example of what i mean about watching what algorithms do to the cube:
-Hold a solved cube with yellow on top and green in front and perform D' L' U' L D
-Notice the green orange pair in the front right slot.
-A common solution to this pair is U (R U R') U2 (R U R')
-Notice that the first (4) moves U R U' R "pair" the pieces such that they can not be inserted into any slot with a 3 move insert.
-We are solving them into the front right so that's why the algorithm has a U2 and then a 3 move insert but what if the pair needed to go into the back left slot instead? Then we do the first (4) moves followed by a 3 move insert from a different angle to solve it! (L U L')
-Being armed with nuggets of knowledge like that are pretty important to a good F2L i think.

Here is the Jperm document which i think can be a good learning tool for the F2L cases if you haven't already seen it:

Best F2L Algorithms.pdf

drive.google.com

ETA: The Z3 video above is pretty helpful also. ^^^^^

 

[Llewelys]

You are quite right dude! I pretty much agree with what you just said and will try to do the same soon! But frankly speaking, I don't know what you mean by the terms 3 move insert and all that! Could you please lend me a helping hand?

Does this algorithm separate the pair directly into a 3 move insert?

You can solve this case by separating the pair directly into a 3 move insert: R U2' R' U' R U R'
- R U2' R' separate the pieces into a 3 move insert
- U' aligns the pieces
- R U R' inserts the pair

Does it hide the edge to pair the pieces or hide the corner to pair the pieces?

You can solve this pair by hiding the corner to pair the pieces with R' U' R2 U R'
- R' U' R hides the corner and puts the edge on top to pair the pieces
- R U R' inserts them

 

[Chinmay47]

Let's discuss the importance of wide moves during F2L!

Can we have more derived algorithms for complex F2L cases? Or is it better to use advanced finger tricks for improving our speed during F2L?
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Also, will the usage of wide moves during F2L have a negative effect on our lookahead to the next pair. And can we predict the use of wide moves during inspection?

 

[Username: Username:]

Let's discuss the importance of wide moves during F2L!

Can we have more derived algorithms for complex F2L cases? Or is it better to use advanced finger tricks for improving our speed during F2L?
.
.
.
Also, will the usage of wide moves during F2L have a negative effect on our lookahead to the next pair. And can we predict the use of wide moves during inspection?

Yes, IMO, wide moves will obstruct lookahead because more pieces are moving and if you're tracking a corner and edge, that corner or edge may have been moved onto the B layer which is bad for lookahead.

I think you can predict the use of wide move if it's necessary or beneficial when you're doing the Cross or Cross+1, for example, if you have an unoriented pair in the U layer and your cross isn't aligned yet, you could do a wide move to align the cross and insert that pair using RUL moves, if you just used a D move to align the cross, that free unoriented pair in the U layer now can only be solved if you rotate or use F and B moves, which is slow or ergonomically inferior to RUL gen. ZZ INTENSIFIES.... lol

 

[Chinmay47]

Yes, IMO, wide moves will obstruct lookahead because more pieces are moving and if you're tracking a corner and edge, that corner or edge may have been moved onto the B layer which is bad for lookahead.

I think you can predict the use of wide move if it's necessary or beneficial when you're doing the Cross or Cross+1, for example, if you have an unoriented pair in the U layer and your cross isn't aligned yet, you could do a wide move to align the cross and insert that pair using RUL moves, if you just used a D move to align the cross, that free unoriented pair in the U layer now can only be solved if you rotate or use F and B moves, which is slow or ergonomically inferior to RUL gen. ZZ INTENSIFIES

Very well buddy! Do you know some Wide moves that could replace the standard F2L algorithms?

 

[Username: Username:]

Very well buddy! Do you know some Wide moves that could replace the standard F2L algorithms?

Hmm.. not F2L algorithms but inserts, for back inserts, instead of (B U' B'), you could do (f R' f'), for front inserts there's no wide move inserts better than to do (U R U' R') or hedgeslammer, but for F2L algorithms, some algorithms that have wide moves is better than to rotate do the intuitive algorithm and insert, for example, Dana Yi made a video on an F2L case which if you do it intuitively, you'll have to rotate but with the wide move alg, it's rotationless. Sometimes, it's just better to rotate than to do wide moves on some F2L cases.

 

[ProStar]

Yes, IMO, wide moves will obstruct lookahead because more pieces are moving and if you're tracking a corner and edge, that corner or edge may have been moved onto the B layer which is bad for lookahead.

I think you can predict the use of wide move if it's necessary or beneficial when you're doing the Cross or Cross+1, for example, if you have an unoriented pair in the U layer and your cross isn't aligned yet, you could do a wide move to align the cross and insert that pair using RUL moves, if you just used a D move to align the cross, that free unoriented pair in the U layer now can only be solved if you rotate or use F and B moves, which is slow or ergonomically inferior to RUL gen. ZZ INTENSIFIES.... lol

RUFy is about the same as RUL, but only if you use EOCross. For EOLine ergonomics RUL is bad because of all the regrips.

 

[Username: Username:]

RUFy is about the same as RUL, but only if you use EOCross. For EOLine ergonomics RUL is bad because of all the regrips.

ok then. I'm not talking about ZZ, I'm talking about CFOP specifically if you use a D move, that pair is unoriented and when you use a wide move it isn't unoriented.

 

[Chinmay47]

RUFy is about the same as RUL, but only if you use EOCross. For EOLine ergonomics RUL is bad because of all the regrips.

I bet this is ZZ! I was specifically talking about the wide move algorithms of CFOP

 

[ProStar]

I bet this is ZZ! I was specifically talking about the wide move algorithms of CFOP

Wide moves generally aren't great for F2L, since they make lookahead much harder

 

[Chinmay47]

Does anyone have the list of full F2L cases and algorithms?

 

[Arkwell]

Here's a question I couldn't find. When learning a new F2L alg I would usually set up the case, solve the case, keep cycling the alg until it gets back to the same case. This gives me lots of fingertrick practice for learning something new while doing my F2L. I've wondered when seeing the pros do examples of their F2L they seem to be able to do it almost as fast backwards as forwards and I was wondering if that is because they are trying to teach something specific and don't have time to waste cycling through to get the case again. I was wondering are there any advantages to learning your F2L algs backwards? (When you're not teaching). If so what are the advantages or should I just keep to cycling through the same alg till I get back to my case as practice for fingertricking?

 

[Micah Morrison]

I think that once you're familiar with your f2l algs it's easy to execute them backwards, because then you would know the alg forwards really well, and it would be easy to reverse. The only advantage I can think of is if the reverse of an f2l alg is better than your solution for solving that case normally.