[Help Thread] F2L Discussion and Help

[mark49152]

Id just split it up in that case and insert it the normal way, without using algs. But since im not happy with my current F2L time (around 12 to 15 secs) i considered algs as an solution.

My point is, algs versus intuitive is not black and white. Whatever trick you learn for a case is likely going to be one that you can understand and adapt, and that will improve your understanding of the cube in general. F2L tricks are fun and certainly worth studying, but don't treat them like regular algs.

 

[Jont828]

Hey, guys! I'm trying to learn Rotationless F2L or some more advanced version with less rotations and/or moves (I know the F2L in badmephisto's speedcubing guide), but I can't really find any resources. I saw on one of Feliks's videos that an edge but not the corner was already in place. He then did a D' turn to use an empty slot, put the corner in, and then do a D turn to align the 2 pieces together. I'm really interested in learning stuff like that, so I would really appreciate it if someone could direct me to some websites/videos with more information on this.

 

[MichaelErskine]

Hey, guys! I'm trying to learn Rotationless F2L or some more advanced version with less rotations and/or moves (I know the F2L in badmephisto's speedcubing guide), but I can't really find any resources. I saw on one of Feliks's videos that an edge but not the corner was already in place. He then did a D' turn to use an empty slot, put the corner in, and then do a D turn to align the 2 pieces together. I'm really interested in learning stuff like that, so I would really appreciate it if someone could direct me to some websites/videos with more information on this.

This is Keyhole method -- search for Arnaud's video on Keyhole method which I remember is a nice introduction.

EDIT: http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Keyhole
EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ-qIyScA5o

 

[Jont828]

Hmm, so do you think it would be more efficient to do that than badmephisto's Advanced F2L style? http://badmephisto.com/badmephisto-speedcubing-method.pdf

 

[MichaelErskine]

Hmm, so do you think it would be more efficient to do that than badmephisto's Advanced F2L style? http://badmephisto.com/badmephisto-speedcubing-method.pdf

Well, no! It's not more efficient than F2L. It's worth knowing what makes keyhole useful in what situations but an intuitive F2L is where it's at!

 

[goodatthis]

Also, for rotationless F2L you could do a d or Dw move, assuming your top layer is in the right position.

 

[TDM]

How I do F2L with only one rotation (step 3 can be quite bad, but can probably be influenced with practise):

1. If, after cross, you have red/orange front, solve all the edges that are either i) in the U layer with red/orange facing U, or ii) in the E slice with red/orange facing F/B.
2. If you have blue/green front, do the same with blue/green.
3. Get all other F2L edges onto the U layer.*
4. Do a y/y', whichever leaves most empty slots on the side of your better hand
5. Finish F2L

* At this stage, if you want to make your LL easier, get some misoriented LL edges into F2L slots.

Hope that's clear. You only need one rotation each solve, but be aware that step 3 can take up to 10 moves (worst case), usually 6.

 

[Note]

Is it a good idea to try and blindly pair/insert F2L pairs, even if it involves cube rotations/d moves? ..I don't really know most of the quicker algorithm ways to solve F2L pairs since I'm trying intuitive F2L, and I just wanted to know if this is a good exercise to do without the knowledge of algs.

 

[Nishal]

How to improve F2L

Hey everyone,
I have been cubing for a while now and use 4LLL and F2l to solve a 3*3 averaging around sub45 . I am very frustrated cause evryone says that u can have sub 20
with this.
I tried to analyze my problem and what i found out was that my f2l is very very slow cause i finish the cross in about 5 seconds and 5-6 seconds to finish my oll and pll.
I have tried everything from practicing look ahead to learning some algs to using a metronome still my f2l times arent improving
Please help:confused:

 

[PJKCuber]

At your speed, just focus on your F2L. I use F2L and 4LLL and maybe 2-3 PLLs and average sub 30. I remember how frustrated I was at your speed. Just practice your F2L a lot. You are doing fine, F2L just takes time. You don't need look ahead at your speed. Just focus on getting all the F2L cases down correctly. You should not have to think while solving them. You want everything to go in muscle memory. It may not seem like much, but just practice. When I was at your speed, I just practiced F2L a lot(around 2 weeks) and then easily got sub 35. Remember that nothing can happen without efforts and nothing can be done overnight. Work Hard.

 

[10461394944000]

how long have you been practising it

also you should probably put a question mark in the thread title so it doesnt look like a tutorial thread

 

[TDM]

Slow down and look ahead. Then slowly increase your speed, and eventually try to turn at the fastest speed that you can still look ahead at. Don't turn too slowly because your times will get very slow, but don't turn too quickly either: keep looking ahead!

 

[Lazy Einstein]

I do untimed solves a lot.
Like everyone keeps on saying in previous thread it really does help. When I was having trouble getting sub-30. I did untimed solves to practice look ahead and I dropped 10 seconds off my average solve.

*Random post*

Psssssssst. *Whispers*Hey PJKCuber. You should realize that we can see your join date under your name before making your signature.*Whispers*

 

[Dane man]

PJKCuber is right. It's mostly just practice.

When you practice a lot, you'll get into the habit of simply knowing what to do with the F2L, and you'll quickly begin to see where certain pieces are without even having to look around the cube to see the other color. It'll become automatic for each pair.
Once this begins to happen, slow down and try to do "look-ahead". This means that you're solving one F2L pair while keeping track of another, so that when you finish with one pair, you move straight to the other without pausing. If you practice that a lot, the speed will come naturally, but it still requires practice.

Practice, practice, practice.

EDIT:
And some advice from Jessica Fridrich herself:
"Now, I can't emphasize this enough: GO SLOWLY. The system works best when you do not apply the algorithms blindly but rather you try to minimize the number of moves, ignoring the time for a while. This is why I also always advice to forget about the time and, instead, start paying attention to the number of moves in the F2L. Then, _very_gradually_ increase the speed. This is the best warm up as well, by the way. Much better than twisting like crazy right from the moment you pick up the cube."

 

[Future Cuber]

Hey guys
i recently ( somewhere around pg 88 and pg 89) Posted how to get sub 7 f2l
no that i achieved it i want sub 6 f2l now ...tips plzzz

 

[Dane man]

Hey guys
i recently ( somewhere around pg 88 and pg 89) Posted how to get sub 7 f2l
no that i achieved it i want sub 6 f2l now ...tips plzzz

Well, at that speed, I guess the only thing you can really do is practice. But, if you haven't already, take a good look at some of the algorithms you use for the F2L, and see if you can't optimize some of them even more, or trade to a better algorithm.

Though, I'm not sure at that point how you can really guarantee an improvement other than pure practice and optimized algs.

 

[Future Cuber]

Well, at that speed, I guess the only thing you can really do is practice. But, if you haven't already, take a good look at some of the algorithms you use for the F2L, and see if you can't optimize some of them even more, or trade to a better algorithm.

Though, I'm not sure at that point how you can really guarantee an improvement other than pure practice and optimized algs.

Thnx... I'll practice and let yu know if im finnaly sub 6 F2L

 

[Note]

I seem to be Sub-40ish at the moment(Haven't really done an avg of 100 yet). I use 2-Look OLL, almost full PLL, and intuitive F2L. I always seem to struggle with F2L because of all the d moves/cube rotations. Should I ditch the d moves and learn a few algs, or just keep practicing the intuitiveness?

 

[MichaelErskine]

I seem to be Sub-40ish at the moment(Haven't really done an avg of 100 yet). I use 2-Look OLL, almost full PLL, and intuitive F2L. I always seem to struggle with F2L because of all the d moves/cube rotations. Should I ditch the d moves and learn a few algs, or just keep practicing the intuitiveness?

Keep the d moves as an option, try some algs to see how they work and add the good ones (the ones you understand) to your bag of intuitive F2L tricks.

 

[Dane man]

I seem to be Sub-40ish at the moment(Haven't really done an avg of 100 yet). I use 2-Look OLL, almost full PLL, and intuitive F2L. I always seem to struggle with F2L because of all the d moves/cube rotations. Should I ditch the d moves and learn a few algs, or just keep practicing the intuitiveness?

I don't think it matters which moves you do or don't do as long as they are comfortable and fluid with your finger-tricks. But seeing that you're not yet sub-30, I would recommend that more than anything else, practice your F2L until you learn to "see around the cube" without rotating it, and until you're able to do really fluid look ahead. You can also investigate different algorithms for the strange F2L situations that you find to require a few more moves that normal. Look at everything, establish a good method, and practice with focus on "seeing" and look ahead.