Blindsolving Discussion and Help

[riffz]

So you think i should just go for it?
BH for corners takes about 10 moves in average to solve 2 corners i think, right?
And i would need about 12 moves. So i would need about 7 moves more in average
and i dont know, if i should learn BH because of these 7 moves in one solve..

Dennis

If you are really adamant about not learning full BH then obviously memorizing which alg is necessary for each case will make you faster because you won't have to visualize where the stickers are going. So yes, I'd say there isn't any reason why that wouldn't improve your times with turbo.

 

[DennisStrehlau]

If you are really adamant about not learning full BH then obviously memorizing which alg is necessary for each case will make you faster because you won't have to visualize where the stickers are going. So yes, I'd say there isn't any reason why that wouldn't improve your times with turbo.

Well, im not adamant about not learning BH. I just want to make sure, that i wont do a lot of work (learning BH) for nothing.
Because it would be for nothing, if i would only save like 1 second in a 3x3x3 BLD solve compared to TuRBo corners.
If I am right, i wouldnt learn BH. If someone tells me like: NO! You would save much more time using BH! -> Then i would srsly think about it. Otherwise i will start with TuRBo today or tomorrow..So, am i right or not?

Greetings, Dennis

 

[Ollie]

Well, im not adamant about not learning BH. I just want to make sure, that i wont do a lot of work (learning BH) for nothing.
Because it would be for nothing, if i would only save like 1 second in a 3x3x3 BLD solve compared to TuRBo corners.
If I am right, i wouldnt learn BH. If someone tells me like: NO! You would save much more time using BH! -> Then i would srsly think about it. Otherwise i will start with TuRBo today or tomorrow..So, am i right or not?

Greetings, Dennis

Hi Dennis,

If it helps, I have only just really learnt how to 3-cycle corner pieces. I didn't want to sit down and learn a horrendously long list of "black and white" algs because that just isn't (and has never been) how my brain works. I think I managed to gradually switch from 3OP to 3-cycles by:

1. Realizing that lot of cases can be done with pure commutators that work on exactly the same concept as big cube centers. I.e. r U2 r' [d2] r U2 r' [d2] on a 4x4x4 has a similar effect to doing R U2 R' [D2] R U2 R' [D2] on the 3x3x3. It is just a matter of experimenting - seeing which centre comms algs you already know work on the 3x3x3 and which don't. Understand that idea and you have actually automatically learnt a LOT of the BH cases.

2. Cherry pick "difficult case" algorithms from the BH corners page. I memorized these cases and used set ups when the commutator isn't always obvious or if I got stuck. You may already know a few of these from TuRBo corners and the concept is the same. I think I learnt 15/16 extra algs and that seemed to be enough to solve any case.

3. Practice on Prisma Timer. There's a corners only feature which trained me up good and proper.

It's not as efficient as BH, but it's fast for me, and it was actually fun to experiment and forced me to think about the cube in new ways. I realize no-one asked me to, but I hope this gives you a few ideas.

Ollie

 

[Ollie]

Also, can anyone offer a good algorithm for this case?

Wings - DFr -> UBl -> DFl?

 

[DrKorbin]

Also, can anyone offer a good algorithm for this case?

Wings - DFr -> UBl -> DFl?

I assume you mean DFr > BUl > FDl?
U2 l2 U2 l' D2 l U2 l' D2 l' U2

 

[Ollie]

I assume you mean DFr > BUl > FDl?
U2 l2 U2 l' D2 l U2 l' D2 l' U2

Apologies, but yes, that works nicely. Thanks!

 

[DennisStrehlau]

Hi Dennis,

If it helps, I have only just really learnt how to 3-cycle corner pieces. I didn't want to sit down and learn a horrendously long list of "black and white" algs because that just isn't (and has never been) how my brain works. I think I managed to gradually switch from 3OP to 3-cycles by:

1. Realizing that lot of cases can be done with pure commutators that work on exactly the same concept as big cube centers. I.e. r U2 r' [d2] r U2 r' [d2] on a 4x4x4 has a similar effect to doing R U2 R' [D2] R U2 R' [D2] on the 3x3x3. It is just a matter of experimenting - seeing which centre comms algs you already know work on the 3x3x3 and which don't. Understand that idea and you have actually automatically learnt a LOT of the BH cases.

2. Cherry pick "difficult case" algorithms from the BH corners page. I memorized these cases and used set ups when the commutator isn't always obvious or if I got stuck. You may already know a few of these from TuRBo corners and the concept is the same. I think I learnt 15/16 extra algs and that seemed to be enough to solve any case.

3. Practice on Prisma Timer. There's a corners only feature which trained me up good and proper.

It's not as efficient as BH, but it's fast for me, and it was actually fun to experiment and forced me to think about the cube in new ways. I realize no-one asked me to, but I hope this gives you a few ideas.

Ollie

Thanks for your answer Ollie.
1. I dont know any commutators for big cubes :S So i ould have to learn these.
2. I understand that point. I would do it the same way, yes.
3. Whats "prisma trainer"?

Greetings, Dennis

 

[Ollie]

Thanks for your answer Ollie.
1. I dont know any commutators for big cubes :S So i ould have to learn these.
2. I understand that point. I would do it the same way, yes.
3. Whats "prisma trainer"?

Greetings, Dennis

1. If you're interested in learning them, Daniel Sheppard has a good tutorial it's a big help when moving onto commutators for corners.

2. Prisma

 

[DennisStrehlau]

GREAT timer. Even clock scrambles and stuff. Thank you so much!
Ok, i will watch the video.
But i still dont know about TuRBo or BH

Dennis

 

[riffz]

GREAT timer. Even clock scrambles and stuff. Thank you so much!
Ok, i will watch the video.
But i still dont know about TuRBo or BH

Dennis

Regarding whether or not BH will save you a worthwhile amount of time over using turbo, I think it will. The turbo algs may be fast, but setup moves often don't flow well with the rest of an alg. The result is a less than speed optimal algorithm for the case. On average you have to execute around 4 algorithms to solve the corners, so my guess is that BH will probably increase your speed by more than 0.25s per case.

Take for example ULB > BRU > FRD. The BH algorithm I would use for this case is D' R' U2 R' D R U2 R' D' R2 D. How much faster can you execute that compared with your turbo solution? The best I could find is F2 (l U2 R D2 R' U2 R D2 R' l') F2 or possibly F' (R' U2 R' F' R2 F R U2 R' F' R2 F R2) F.

 

[DennisStrehlau]

The turbo algs may be fast, but setup moves often don't flow well with the rest of an alg.

You are right about that. I will learn the cases for TuRBo anyway but i think i will switch to BH (or wich method will be developed until then) sooner or later. Right now i dont really want to get into this commutator stuff. Do you think that it would be a problem to switch from TuRBo to BH or any method that is similar? I always heard, that its fine to use TuRBo and switch later and that TuRBo might even help you..

F2 (l U2 R D2 R' U2 R D2 R' l') F2

Wow nice, i will use this one. I always had this stupid one:
LF'U2FL'F'LU2L'F
I think those 2 algorithms are both really fast..

Greetings, Dennis

 

[riffz]

I definitely don't think Turbo can hinder your progress in BH should you choose to use it later. You can start learning commutators at whatever pace you like, and switch from turbo to BH when you feel comfortable. Plus, knowing BH will allow you to slowly incorporate BH cases that you know into your solves as you progress.

 

[DennisStrehlau]

Thanks for that riffz..

Plus, knowing BH will allow you to slowly incorporate BH cases that you know into your solves as you progress.

What do you exactly mean by that?

Greetings, Dennis

 

[Noahaha]

What do you exactly mean by that?

What he means is that there's a huge difference between knowing BH and using it. You could probably learn how to construct commutators in less than an hour, but there's an ocean of practice between that and being able to access fast commutators for each case without hesitation.

Basically, learn BH now since the sooner you learn it the sooner you'll be using it.

 

[Renslay]

Who is the fastest TuRBo (and not BH) user and what is his/her solving time? (overall in BLD and execution on the corners)

 

[riffz]

Thanks for that riffz..



What do you exactly mean by that?

Greetings, Dennis

Well, turbo gives you an easy way to solve any corner 3 cycle fairly quickly. So you can take your time learning BH, and slowly incorporate the easy cases into your solves, while still using turbo to solve the ones you aren't comfortable with.

 

[DennisStrehlau]

Well, turbo gives you an easy way to solve any corner 3 cycle fairly quickly. So you can take your time learning BH, and slowly incorporate the easy cases into your solves, while still using turbo to solve the ones you aren't comfortable with.

Yeah, that sounds great.

Greetings, Dennis

 

[DrKorbin]

Wings BH: how do you perform
DFr > UFl > URf?
or
DFr > UFl > ULb?

 

[drewsopchak]

Wings BH: how do you perform
DFr > UFl > URf?

D R2 D l2 D' R2 D R2 D2 For DFr > UFl > ULb, I'd do the same thing but on the left side.

 

[Ollie]

There are 8 move commutators that I found today, as a matter of fact...

DFr > UFl > ULb

y x2 U [r2] U' L2 U [r2] U' L2 x2 y'

DFr > UFl > URf

y' x2 U' [r2] U R2 U' [r2] U R2 x2 y

EDIT: corrected the cube rotation