Blindsolving Discussion and Help

[Zane_C]

But you do have to learn which commutator is the speed-optimal one to apply for each case, correct?

Yes, you learn the fast commutators. *Emphasising the learning, opposed to memorising*

Also, would the fastest execution method for corners be speed-optimal 3-cycles? I performed some research and found that BH is fairly optimised in terms of speed. Is this true? Or could more be done to make the commutators more fingertrick-friendly?

BH is very fast for the corners how it is (move optimal), but again some cases can be made more finger trick friendly by performing them non-optimally.

Take this column for example: UBL > FDR > BUR
Optimally this can be solve in 11 moves by cancelling into a cyclic shift like so: F2 L U2 L' F L F' U2 F L' F
However, this commutator with a 5 move insertion is much nicer: y [R U R2 U' R', F2]

 

[aronpm]

Take this column for example: UBL > FDR > BUR
Optimally this can be solve in 11 moves by cancelling into a cyclic shift like so: F2 L U2 L' F L F' U2 F L' F
However, this commutator with a 5 move insertion is much nicer: y [R U R2 U' R', F2]

But the other optimal solution (setup to A9) is coincidentally even nicer: D' (R' U2 R' D R U2 R' D' R2) D
Generally all the setup to A9 solutions for columns are really nice.

 

[Zane_C]

But the other optimal solution (setup to A9) is coincidentally even nicer: D' (R' U2 R' D R U2 R' D' R2) D
Generally all the setup to A9 solutions for columns are really nice.

Yes, I know you've mentioned to me that columns can be solved optimally by setting up to fingertrick friendly A9s.
I deliberately chose a set up to a cyclic shift to express what I meant about solving non-optimally but faster.

 

[riffz]

D' (R' U2 R' D R U2 R' D' R2) D

:O

 

[Cool Frog]

:O

you mean you didn't know this?!

 

[minime12358]

No, you can't do the things you want to! This is what M' u2 M' u2 does.

And you have NO reason to flip anything if I understand what you're saying. I recommend that you learn M2 for 3x3 before doing T-centers.

Ahh sorry for bumping this after a while.

I dont know why I looked at the cube and thought that it was a 3 cycle xD However, I do have algorithms generated in M U u Uw and M U Uw. Unfortunately, half of these are an h perm off as I forgot to set the corners in the definition file:

M u U Uw :

Spoiler

UF: 8
U2 M u2 M' U2 M' u2 M'
Uw2 M u2 M' Uw2 M' u2 M'

BU: 12
M2 Uw M u M U' M' u' M U M2 Uw'
M2 Uw' M u' M U M' u M U' M2 Uw

FD: 12
Uw M u M U' M' u' M U M2 Uw' M2
Uw' M u' M U M' u M U' M2 Uw M2

FU: 12
M2 Uw M2 U' M' u' M U M' u M' Uw'
M2 Uw' M2 U M' u M U' M' u' M' Uw

DB: 8
U2 M u2 M' U2 M u2 M
Uw2 M u2 M' Uw2 M u2 M

BD: 12
Uw M u' M U' M' u M U M2 Uw' M2
Uw' M u M U M' u' M U' M2 Uw M2

M Uw U :

Spoiler

UF: 12
Uw2 M U2 M Uw2 M' Uw2 M' Uw2 M' U2 M'
Uw2 M U2 M' Uw2 M' Uw2 M' Uw2 M U2 M'
U2 M U2 M2 Uw2 M' U2 M' Uw2 M2 U2 M'
U2 M' Uw2 M2 U2 M U2 M' Uw2 M2 U2 M'
Uw2 M U2 M2 Uw2 M' Uw2 M' Uw2 M2 U2 M'
Uw2 M' Uw2 M2 U2 M Uw2 M' Uw2 M2 U2 M'
U2 M U2 M2 Uw2 M' U2 M U2 M2 Uw2 M
U2 M' Uw2 M2 U2 M U2 M U2 M2 Uw2 M
Uw2 M U2 M2 Uw2 M' Uw2 M U2 M2 Uw2 M
Uw2 M' Uw2 M2 U2 M Uw2 M U2 M2 Uw2 M
M' Uw2 M Uw2 M U2 M' Uw2 M' U2 M' Uw2
M' Uw2 M' Uw2 M U2 M' Uw2 M U2 M' Uw2
M' U2 M Uw2 M U2 M' Uw2 M' Uw2 M' Uw2
M' U2 M' Uw2 M U2 M' Uw2 M Uw2 M' Uw2

BU: 17
M Uw M' U M' U M2 Uw' M2 Uw M' U M' U M2 Uw' M'
M Uw M' U M Uw' M2 Uw M2 U' M U M' U M2 Uw'
M Uw' M' U' M' U' M2 Uw M2 Uw' M' U' M' U' M2 Uw M'
M Uw' M' U' M Uw M2 Uw' M2 U M U' M' U' M2 Uw

FD: 17
M' Uw M' U M' U M2 Uw' M2 Uw M' U M' U M2 Uw' M
M' Uw M' U M Uw' M2 Uw M2 U' M U M' U M2 Uw' M
M' Uw' M' U' M' U' M2 Uw M2 Uw' M' U' M' U' M2 Uw M
M' Uw' M' U' M Uw M2 Uw' M2 U M U' M' U' M2 Uw M

FU: 17
M' Uw M' U' M' U M2 Uw' M2 Uw M' U' M' U M2 Uw' M
M' Uw M' U' M Uw' M2 Uw M2 U' M U' M' U M2 Uw' M
M' Uw' M' U M' U' M2 Uw M2 Uw' M' U M' U' M2 Uw M
M' Uw' M' U M Uw M2 Uw' M2 U M U M' U' M2 Uw M

DB: 12
U2 M U2 M2 Uw2 M' U2 M' U2 M2 Uw2 M'
U2 M' Uw2 M2 U2 M U2 M' U2 M2 Uw2 M'
Uw2 M U2 M2 Uw2 M' Uw2 M' U2 M2 Uw2 M'
Uw2 M' Uw2 M2 U2 M Uw2 M' U2 M2 Uw2 M'
Uw2 M U2 M Uw2 M Uw2 M' Uw2 M' U2 M
Uw2 M U2 M' Uw2 M Uw2 M' Uw2 M U2 M
U2 M U2 M2 Uw2 M' U2 M Uw2 M2 U2 M
U2 M' Uw2 M2 U2 M U2 M Uw2 M2 U2 M
Uw2 M U2 M2 Uw2 M' Uw2 M Uw2 M2 U2 M
Uw2 M' Uw2 M2 U2 M Uw2 M Uw2 M2 U2 M
M Uw2 M Uw2 M U2 M Uw2 M' U2 M' Uw2
M Uw2 M' Uw2 M U2 M Uw2 M U2 M' Uw2
M U2 M Uw2 M U2 M Uw2 M' Uw2 M' Uw2
M U2 M' Uw2 M U2 M Uw2 M Uw2 M' Uw2

BD: 17
M' Uw M2 U' M U M' U M2 Uw' M2 Uw M' U M Uw' M
M' Uw M2 U' M U M Uw' M2 Uw M2 U' M U M Uw' M
M' Uw' M2 U M U' M' U' M2 Uw M2 Uw' M' U' M Uw M
M' Uw' M2 U M U' M Uw M2 Uw' M2 U M U' M Uw M

Some very very nice algs in there

Also, about learning M2: I might one time for multi, but I know bh and that is good enough for me

 

[Cube Equation]

BH is very fast for the corners how it is (move optimal), but again some cases can be made more finger trick friendly by performing them non-optimally.

So is there a list of speed-optimised commutators similar to the one you provided for edges.?Unfortunately, I lack the capability and dedication to find these independently.

 

[Zane_C]

So is there a list of speed-optimised commutators similar to the one you provided for edges.?Unfortunately, I lack the capability and dedication to find these independently.

Here are a some links:
Riffz' corner algs
How to learn BH efficiently

 

[riffz]

you mean you didn't know this?!

Hadn't thought of it, no. I had been using y [R U R2 U' R', F2].

 

[Cube Equation]

Here are a some links:
Riffz' corner algs
How to learn BH efficiently

Thanks. These should quell my seemingly endless supply of queries.

But I have one more question. What memorisation method would you recommend? I'm currently utilising letter pairs and using to form sentences from a prepared list of words. But perhaps due to a lack of practice, I often require a delay of a few seconds to translate the letter pair into the actual sticker. However, I expect that this would improve as I continue to practice, instead of devoting my time to asking questions on the forums.

But I also see the potential of visual memory, which I use for 3OP in 2BLD to record the small amount of information. It seems to be more direct, and as a result, faster. However, I do find it difficult to memorise a larger quantity of information with this technique, and therefore have not applied it in 3BLD yet. I do believe that letter pairs could possibly exceed this if practised sufficiently, but I have no evidence to support this claim.

 

[aronpm]

Letter memo is better than visual memo in my opinion.

 

[Zane_C]

But I have one more question. What memorisation method would you recommend?

I can't really recommend any particular memorisation method as different methods suit different people.
However, seeing as you've got started on letter pairs I would suggest that you stick with them for a bit and see how you progress. Delays will be eliminated though practice.
Letter pairs can be used in many different ways (ie. to form sentences, images or audio sounds).
Forming audio sounds is extremely fast, because all you are doing is making non-coherent sounds/words.

Example: TJ+FW+XI+AE = "TuJ FeW XI AyE"

Vowels makes great fillers between consonants.

Here are just some of the fast method combos:
- sentence edges and audio corners.
- sentence edges and visual corners.
- audio edges and visual corners.
- image edges and audio corners.
- audio edges and image corners.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, the current 3x3 BLD world record holder apparently uses audio for both edges and corners!
Most people (including myself) find this very challenging.

 

[Cubenovice]

But I also see the potential of visual memory, which I use for 3OP in 2BLD to record the small amount of information. It seems to be more direct, and as a result, faster. However, I do find it difficult to memorise a larger quantity of information with this technique, and therefore have not applied it in 3BLD yet. I do believe that letter pairs could possibly exceed this if practised sufficiently, but I have no evidence to support this claim.

As you already do visual corners and have experience with letter pairs:
Edges via sentences (this sticks longest)
Corners visual
Then start solving with corners and finish with edges.

As I'm not comfortable with 8 visual corners (yet) I have shifted the "memo switch point"
Edges via sentences
First 2-4 corners visual, the others in letter pairs.
Yes: I am that crazy....

I hope to progress to full visual corneers eventually

 

[Cube Equation]

Letter memo is better than visual memo in my opinion.

In what way?

Forming audio sounds is extremely fast, because all you are doing is making non-coherent sounds/words.

Personally, I don't think I could retain incoherent sounds in my brain for an extended period of time.

As you already do visual corners and have experience with letter pairs:
Edges via sentences (this sticks longest)
Corners visual
Then start solving with corners and finish with edges.

That's a good suggestion. But I could only use visual after orienting the corners, which is something I would prefer not to do. I can only hope that practice will improve my memorisation.

Another question: would it be advisable to start learning the concepts behind BH edges and then gradually optimising the non-fingertrick-friendly cases?

 

[aronpm]

In what way?

Faster

 

[Cube Equation]

Faster

Any explanations as to why? It seems that visual is more direct. Though as I said before, with sufficient practice, the difference in speed should be negligible.

 

[aronpm]

Visual memo is slower I think, and it's harder. It's easy for there to be cases that are difficult to memorize that blow up your memo time and ruin what would be a decent solve.

All the fast people use letters.

 

[Cube Equation]

All the fast people use letters.

That convinced me.

 

[Julian]

Personally, I don't think I could retain incoherent sounds in my brain for an extended period of time.

You don't need to. Most people who use audio memo use it for corners, which is the last thing they memo, and the first thing they solve. So they only have to retain the audio for 10-15 seconds, which we are apparently naturally hardwired to be able to do (so that we can keep up with conversations).

 

[Cube Equation]

You don't need to. Most people who use audio memo use it for corners, which is the last thing they memo, and the first thing they solve. So they only have to retain the audio for 10-15 seconds, which we are apparently naturally hardwired to be able to do (so that we can keep up with conversations).

I'll experiment with it for corners. But I'm using sentences for edges.