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MarkA64

Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2019
Messages
182
Location
NY
Quick tip for cross: use fat l, u, and r moves in the right scenarios: for example when a bunch of cross pieces are in the front layer or just flat out not oriented properly to be inserted into the cross layer!
 

ctan

Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2019
Messages
3
Quick tip for cross: use fat l, u, and r moves in the right scenarios: for example when a bunch of cross pieces are in the front layer or just flat out not oriented properly to be inserted into the cross layer!
Could we try to list the tips with fat moves ? I know only one :

setup your cure with white down, green front : R u' R
Solve the last white edge by doing : R u R'

Other tips guys ?
 

Andytu!

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2019
Messages
6

Dear Speedsolving.com members greetings:

My name is Andytu, as this beginner has start his own RUBIK 's cube training sessions, just want to ask you something:


Most of the notable speed cubers saying that, in Ms. Fridrich's CFOP method, the Cross ( Color neutral or not ) con be done in 8/Eight moves, if not in 6/Six moves or less, now:


1. How do you consider a "Move" ? Is F "one" move as well as F2 ? What is the story after this rule & why?

2. Following the first question logic, here some of my - used a modified Yuxin Little Magic 3x3 to match up the video settings - Cross solving results cases:

First case
Inspection: x, y
Cross: U, B, E', F', L2, U', B' R ( 9 moves counting L2 )

Second case
Inspection: x,x',y
Cross: R, F, U, B'2, D2, R, D, B' ( 10 moves counting B'2, D'2 )

Third case
Inspection: x,x',y
Cross: L', B2, U' F' R, M',x ( 8 moves counting B2, x )

Fourth case
Inspection: x,y,x'
Cross: R', U, D, F, D', B', R', D2 ( 9 moves counting D2 )

Question: Are you, Sir & Madam, absolutely 100% sure that the every single Cross cases can be solved in 8 clean - Including the 180 degrees turns - moves or less? Because this beginner is averaging 9~12 "moves" - counting such as F2/U2/M2 moves - on solving any Cross, may you be so kind to enlighten me what is this beginner doing wrong? Specially with those examples above? Very appreciated! Happy holidays!

God bless you all

~ Andytu
2019/12/20 17:10 at home





Eliminar
 

Owen Morrison

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Messages
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WCA
2017MORR06
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Dear Speedsolving.com members greetings:

My name is Andytu, as this beginner has start his own RUBIK 's cube training sessions, just want to ask you something:


Most of the notable speed cubers saying that, in Ms. Fridrich's CFOP method, the Cross ( Color neutral or not ) con be done in 8/Eight moves, if not in 6/Six moves or less, now:


1. How do you consider a "Move" ? Is F "one" move as well as F2 ? What is the story after this rule & why?

2. Following the first question logic, here some of my - used a modified Yuxin Little Magic 3x3 to match up the video settings - Cross solving results cases:

First case
Inspection: x, y
Cross: U, B, E', F', L2, U', B' R ( 9 moves counting L2 )

Second case
Inspection: x,x',y
Cross: R, F, U, B'2, D2, R, D, B' ( 10 moves counting B'2, D'2 )

Third case
Inspection: x,x',y
Cross: L', B2, U' F' R, M',x ( 8 moves counting B2, x )

Fourth case
Inspection: x,y,x'
Cross: R', U, D, F, D', B', R', D2 ( 9 moves counting D2 )

Question: Are you, Sir & Madam, absolutely 100% sure that the every single Cross cases can be solved in 8 clean - Including the 180 degrees turns - moves or less? Because this beginner is averaging 9~12 "moves" - counting such as F2/U2/M2 moves - on solving any Cross, may you be so kind to enlighten me what is this beginner doing wrong? Specially with those examples above? Very appreciated! Happy holidays!

God bless you all

~ Andytu
2019/12/20 17:10 at home





Eliminar


what cross color are you doing? also, are you solving the cross on the top or bottom? F2 is considered to be one "Move" because it only requires on movement to solve. where R B requires to movements to do.
 

ProStar

Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Messages
4,255
Location
An uncolonized sector of the planet Mars
WCA
2020MAHO01

Dear Speedsolving.com members greetings:

My name is Andytu, as this beginner has start his own RUBIK 's cube training sessions, just want to ask you something:


Most of the notable speed cubers saying that, in Ms. Fridrich's CFOP method, the Cross ( Color neutral or not ) con be done in 8/Eight moves, if not in 6/Six moves or less, now:


1. How do you consider a "Move" ? Is F "one" move as well as F2 ? What is the story after this rule & why?

2. Following the first question logic, here some of my - used a modified Yuxin Little Magic 3x3 to match up the video settings - Cross solving results cases:

First case
Inspection: x, y
Cross: U, B, E', F', L2, U', B' R ( 9 moves counting L2 )

Second case
Inspection: x,x',y
Cross: R, F, U, B'2, D2, R, D, B' ( 10 moves counting B'2, D'2 )

Third case
Inspection: x,x',y
Cross: L', B2, U' F' R, M',x ( 8 moves counting B2, x )

Fourth case
Inspection: x,y,x'
Cross: R', U, D, F, D', B', R', D2 ( 9 moves counting D2 )

Question: Are you, Sir & Madam, absolutely 100% sure that the every single Cross cases can be solved in 8 clean - Including the 180 degrees turns - moves or less? Because this beginner is averaging 9~12 "moves" - counting such as F2/U2/M2 moves - on solving any Cross, may you be so kind to enlighten me what is this beginner doing wrong? Specially with those examples above? Very appreciated! Happy holidays!

God bless you all

~ Andytu
2019/12/20 17:10 at home





Eliminar


How many moves you've done depends on what metric you're using. FMC uses HTM, and most reconstructions use STM. You can find an explanation of all the turn metrics here.
 

Andytu!

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2019
Messages
6
Dear Mr. Owen Morrison & Mr./Ms. ProStar greetings:

what cross color are you doing? also, are you solving the cross on the top or bottom? F2 is considered to be one "Move" because it only requires on movement to solve. where R B requires to movements to do.
This beginner is Color Neutral, as fan of Mr. Feliks Zemdegs by watching his videos, solves the Cross always in the bottom. What is the story behind this F/F2 both considered as one move ? & Why? As beginner it's really confuses me a lot...

How many moves you've done depends on what metric you're using. FMC uses HTM, and most reconstructions use STM. You can find an explanation of all the turn metrics here.
This beginner use what you experts called as The quarter turn metric (QTM) With that being said, a Cross can never be solves in 8 Clean moves, does it?

God bless you

~Andytu
2019/12/23 13:52 local times
 

ProStar

Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Messages
4,255
Location
An uncolonized sector of the planet Mars
WCA
2020MAHO01
This beginner use what you experts called as The quarter turn metric (QTM) With that being said, a Cross can never be solves in 8 Clean moves, does it?

God bless you

~Andytu
2019/12/23 13:52 local times
Most of the time, either Half Turn Metric(HTM) or Slice Turn Metric(STM) is used for calculating the moves done. So in both HTM and STM, you can solve a cross in 8 moves or less.
 

Owen Morrison

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Joined
Aug 16, 2019
Messages
1,735
Location
Tennessee
WCA
2017MORR06
YouTube
Visit Channel
This beginner is Color Neutral, as fan of Mr. Feliks Zemdegs by watching his videos, solves the Cross always in the bottom. What is the story behind this F/F2 both considered as one move ? & Why? As beginner it's really confuses me a lot...
I am pretty sure F2 is considered one move because it only really requires one movement of your hand. you said you were a beginner so you might do two movements to do a turn like that. As you get more experienced you will start to do a move like R2 with one movement of your hand. This I am pretty sure is why it is considered one move.
 

Andytu!

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2019
Messages
6
Most of the time, either Half Turn Metric(HTM) or Slice Turn Metric(STM) is used for calculating the moves done. So in both HTM and STM, you can solve a cross in 8 moves or less.
Dear Mr./Ms. Prostar greetings:

Then may you so kind to check those cases:

First case
Inspection: x, y
Cross: U, B, E', F', L2, U', B' R ( 9 moves counting L2 )

Second case
Inspection: x,x',y
Cross: R, F, U, B'2, D2, R, D, B' ( 10 moves counting B'2, D'2 )

There are any chances to decrease under 8 moves or less in those cases with quarter turn metric ? There are better solutions with Half Turn Metric(HTM) or Slice Turn Metric(STM) ? Very appreciated! Happy holidays!

God bless you all

~Beginner Andytu2019/12/24 08:49
 

Owen Morrison

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Messages
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Location
Tennessee
WCA
2017MORR06
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Hello Andytu,
Here is how I would solve both of those cases.

first case
no rotations in inspection
Cross: R' F' U' F' L' B L2 which is seven moves, eight if you count L2 as two moves.

second case:
inspection: y'
Cross: U F L R2 D' R which is 6 moves, 7 if you count the R2 as two moves.

These are however more advanced solutions which you may not be accustomed to.

I would recommend not doing slice moves especially not E or S as they are slow and hard to execute.

God bless you,

-Owen
 

Andytu!

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2019
Messages
6
Hello Andytu,
Here is how I would solve both of those cases.

first case
no rotations in inspection
Cross: R' F' U' F' L' B L2 which is seven moves, eight if you count L2 as two moves.

second case:
inspection: y'
Cross: U F L R2 D' R which is 6 moves, 7 if you count the R2 as two moves.

These are however more advanced solutions which you may not be accustomed to.

I would recommend not doing slice moves especially not E or S as they are slow and hard to execute.

God bless you,

-Owen
Thank you, Mr. Morrison, by the way, your record in WCA are impressives!

Now as you mentioned, part of my beginner training menu is, precisely FSC, by watching Mr. Feliks Zemdegs' Youtube channel & some unorthodox idea of my own, in some cases could force reduced as fewer moves as possible:

Fifth case:
Inspection: x, y, y'
Cross: r, D, R, U, L, F, x'

Sixth case:
Inspection: x,y,y'
Cross: E', U, L, B, F'2

Just wondering, how you all ladies and gentlemen started to make the Cross efficient way? Is there any database of Crosses solves through the years at all? How do you improve yourself? Not only blind practices but use ingenious & FSC? Thanks again! Happy holidays

God bless you

~Beginner Andytu
2019/12/24 12:02
 
Last edited:

ProStar

Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Messages
4,255
Location
An uncolonized sector of the planet Mars
WCA
2020MAHO01
Thank you, Mr. Morrison, by the way, your record in WCA are impressives!

Now as you mentioned, part of my beginner training menu is, precisely FSC, by watching Mr. Feliks Zemdegs' Youtube channel & some unorthodox idea of my own, in some cases could force reduced as fewer moves as possible:

Fifth case:
Inspection: x, y, y'
Cross: r, D, R, U, L, F, x'

Sixth case:
Inspection: x,y,y'
Cross: E', U, L, B, F'2

Just wondering, how you all ladies and gentlemen started to make the Cross efficient way? Is there any database of Crosses solves through the years at all? How do you improve yourself? Not only blind practices but use ingenious & FSC? Thanks again! Happy holidays

God bless you

~Beginner Andytu
2019/12/24 12:02
It's less about looking at a scramble and recognizing it, as there is way to many setups for that to be possible. What we do is use different ideas we've learned(from either watching YouTube or experience) and apply them to a specific scramble. Also, not everything is about movecount. For example, E' U L B F2 may be more move-efficient, but not very ergonomic. What I mean by this is if you want to do an E or E', you have to change your grip on the cube, and then change back to do the next move. Whenever you change your grip on the cube, it is called a "regrip". A solution like E' U L B F2 is short, but has 2 regrips, while another solution like D F L R2 has 0 regrips, allowing you to execute it without having to change the way you hold the cube, therefore increasing your potential turn speed. As for how to get better at the cross, you don't necessarily need to practice it a bunch until your around 30ish seconds(don't make that a benchmark time, just an estimated time when you should start working on a faster cross). What do you average now? If you have any questions for something other than cross, feel free to PM me; I'd be happy to help.

Oh, and I'm a male :)
 

Owen Morrison

Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2019
Messages
1,735
Location
Tennessee
WCA
2017MORR06
YouTube
Visit Channel
Thank you, Mr. Morrison, by the way, your record in WCA are impressives!
Thank you!
Just wondering, how you all ladies and gentlemen started to make the Cross efficient way? Is there any database of Crosses solves through the years at all? How do you improve yourself? Not only blind practices but use ingenious & FSC? Thanks again! Happy holidays
I learned how to solve the cross much more efficiently through J Perms videos, specifically this one:


It helped me a lot, I hope it helps you!
 

Andytu!

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2019
Messages
6
Dear everyone greetings:

It's less about looking at a scramble and recognizing it... For example, E' U L B F2 may be more move-efficient, but not very ergonomic...
Dear Mr. Prostar:

Well , as beginners, we do not have the Look ahead/Planning skills & experiences as you do, so we improvised reducing the moves low enough to fit the 8/Eight moves mark, some cases are just too complicated for a quarter turn metric based newbie to even impossible fit the 8/Eight moves mark ( Averaging 10 ~12 moves currently ) making me very frustrating...

I learned how to solve the cross much more efficiently through J Perms videos, specifically this one:


It helped me a lot, I hope it helps you!
Dear Mr. Morrison greetings:

In 3:28 of the video, Mr. J Perms used D2, L, D2 ( which are 5 moves in QTM ) to solved an single Edge, which means that example could not be solved in 8/Eight moves or less, maybe this beginner asking too much, but really want to start with the right foot, learning the basics correctly, so can proceed to the next steps ( F2L, OLL, PLL ) without any mistakes, may someone help me with? thank you, Happy holidays!

God bless you

~ A beginner Andytu
2019/12/25 17:24 local times
 
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