# [Help Thread]3x3 Cross Help and Discussion

#### ProStar

##### Member
Dear everyone greetings:

Dear Mr. Prostar:

Well , as beginners, we do not have the Look ahead/Planning skills & experiences as you do, so we improvised reducing the moves low enough to fit the 8/Eight moves mark, some cases are just too complicated for a quarter turn metric based newbie to even impossible fit the 8/Eight moves mark ( Averaging 10 ~12 moves currently ) making me very frustrating...

Dear Mr. Morrison greetings:

In 3:28 of the video, Mr. J Perms used D2, L, D2 ( which are 5 moves in QTM ) to solved an single Edge, which means that example could not be solved in 8/Eight moves or less, maybe this beginner asking too much, but really want to start with the right foot, learning the basics correctly, so can proceed to the next steps ( F2L, OLL, PLL ) without any mistakes, may someone help me with? thank you, Happy holidays!

God bless you

~ A beginner Andytu
2019/12/25 17:24 local times
As a beginner, you won't be able to get an 8 move cross every time(also, they are talking about HTM, not QTM). I currently average around 25 seconds, and I don't always get an 8 move or less cross. Depending on your current average, I'd probably say what you need to improve the most is F2L, as that is what most people need the most help with.

#### Owen Morrison

##### Member
Dear Mr. Morrison greetings:

In 3:28 of the video, Mr. J Perms used D2, L, D2 ( which are 5 moves in QTM ) to solved an single Edge, which means that example could not be solved in 8/Eight moves or less, maybe this beginner asking too much, but really want to start with the right foot, learning the basics correctly, so can proceed to the next steps ( F2L, OLL, PLL ) without any mistakes, may someone help me with? thank you, Happy holidays!
I don't think it is possible to solve the cross in 8 moves when you count R2 as two moves. I think you should start counting R2 as one move, because that is what almost every cuber uses. Also, in the WCA if a cube is off by U2 it only counts as a +2. whereas if it is off by R U then it will be a DNF. The WCA counts R2 as one move, I don't know the story behind it though, sorry.

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#### Andytu!

##### Member
Dear everyone greetings:
The dedication to the troll compared to the payoff is nuts. Hats off to you, my friend.
Dear Mr. Ronkainen:
Sorry if this beginner was that persistent, hence my deepest apology. Yes, PTSD & obsession makes me what you see today, a sick person, currently on therapy - really mean it - The doctors saids to find a way to relax, sadly, this beginner chose the worst method possible, which is Rubik's cube - where instead of relaxing we use more thinking & planning in effort to solve the puzzle - It's not my real intention to annoying people around, really sorry Sir, by the way, your WCA record are also impressive!

As a beginner, you won't be able to get an 8 move cross every time(also, they are talking about HTM, not QTM). I currently average around 25 seconds, and I don't always get an 8 move or less cross. Depending on your current average, I'd probably say what you need to improve the most is F2L, as that is what most people need the most help with.
Dear Mr. Prostar greetings:
Now , that is what this beginner wanted to know from the start, so the 8/Eight moves Cross theory is based in HTM not QTM, thank you so much , Mr. Prostar!

I don't think it is possible to solve the cross in 8 moves when you count R2 as to moves. I think you should start counting R2 as one move, because that is what almost every cuber uses...
Dear Mr. Morrison greetings:

Ok, for now on, this beginner will adapt himself to the HTM... Thank you so much for your patiences & times,

My deepest apologies to everyone who was upset by my nonsense & foolish questions - Didn't know anything about QTM & HTM until couple of days ago - appreciated all the answers you kindly gave me, sorry by ruined your holidays, enjoy the rest of them, thank you!

God bless you all

~ Beginner Andytu
2019/12/26 08:40 local times

#### Owen Morrison

##### Member
Dear Mr. Morrison greetings:

Ok, for now on, this beginner will adapt himself to the HTM... Thank you so much for your patiences & times,

My deepest apologies to everyone who was upset by my nonsense & foolish questions - Didn't know anything about QTM & HTM until couple of days ago - appreciated all the answers you kindly gave me, sorry by ruined your holidays, enjoy the rest of them, thank you!
Ha you didn't ruin my holidays didn't upset me at all. I had no idea what QTM & HTM were either! Those were not nonsense and foolish questions. You were trying to understand the cross better. I am glad the answers helped you!

#### jdh3000

##### Member
I do this usually when forming a cross(bottom)(CFOP)

I line up opposite edge pieces, not paying attention to center pieces, then form the cross.

If they end up opposie I just do a D2 or u2

If I see they are offset I do M2 U2 M2 to fix it quickly.
That fixes it if the offset piece is facine me, if it's on the side, I do a simular M2 u2 M2.

It seems fast, especially in inspection for the cross. All I have to do is think in opposites.

In most cases it seems as fast or faster than coming up with a way to make a cross by thinking what is to the right or left. I have less to think about.

This may not be perfect but it works for me. It helps my time and has made making to cross much easier. It makes looking at the first f2l pair easier

Of course if a better cross formation presents itself, for example if 2 adjacent edges are already in place, I'll just insert the other two, but most of the time this helps.

#### footyfanatic01

##### Member
Are there any cross practice tools? The worst part of my solve is by far the cross. I want a tool that can do a scramble and then I have to do the cross. I want it to also show me the optimal solution. I tried tutorials on YouTube, but there is no interactive thing to use.

#### 1cubealot

##### Member
Just practice and do it in bottom

#### Chinmay47

##### Member
At the beginning of a solve, it usually doesn't take more than 5 seconds to build the cross and start with the F2L. But I fail at recognition here! I keep on struggling to orient the cross and this almost takes 12 seconds I guess. Following J PERM's advice from the video "How To Make Efficient Crosses", I started building the cross with the face upside down instead of making it and then turning it upside down. But guess what? My condition is getting even worse though! Can someone lend me some help in building the cross efficiently? Also it would be highly appreciated if someone can help me in building faster pickup speed!

##### Member
At the beginning of a solve, it usually doesn't take more than 5 seconds to build the cross and start with the F2L. But I fail at recognition here! I keep on struggling to orient the cross and this almost takes 12 seconds I guess. Following J PERM's advice from the video "How To Make Efficient Crosses", I started building the cross with the face upside down instead of making it and then turning it upside down. But guess what? My condition is getting even worse though! Can someone lend me some help in building the cross efficiently? Also it would be highly appreciated if someone can help me in building faster pickup speed!
you should do more slow solves you will get used to it over time. do cross on the bottom, it improves lookahead, but JPerm probably told that. Also, if you use CSTimer, check if your cross solutions are optimal by using the solver tool on the down right corner, it will show the most optimal solutions

#### Chinmay47

##### Member
Thanks A Lot Buddy! I will try what you suggested. Any tips for faster pickup?

##### Member
Thanks A Lot Buddy! I will try what you suggested. Any tips for faster pickup?
for faster pickup, sometimes you get nervous and your hands are oily, before a solve, you should be ready and wipe your hands off if needed, also, when you touch the space bar, touch it for a relatively long time using your fingers and your left hand nearby but not touching the cube, but not too long to prepare to put your hand to homegrip and pick up the cube.

edit : sorry if the English is too bad lol

#### NevEr_QeyX

##### Member
At the beginning of a solve, it usually doesn't take more than 5 seconds to build the cross and start with the F2L. But I fail at recognition here! I keep on struggling to orient the cross and this almost takes 12 seconds I guess. Following J PERM's advice from the video "How To Make Efficient Crosses", I started building the cross with the face upside down instead of making it and then turning it upside down. But guess what? My condition is getting even worse though! Can someone lend me some help in building the cross efficiently? Also it would be highly appreciated if someone can help me in building faster pickup speed!
Do a session of solves where you plan as much of the cross as you are able (don't limit yourself to 15 seconds) If you can only plan 3 or even 2 pieces that's where you HAVE to start. If you just keep doing solves you will never break this bad habit. Eventually you will want to be able to do the cross blindfolded. (I know that sounds really hard but after you get better something will just click and you will have an immensely easier time doing a solve).
But you HAVE to practice it, it will be very hard in the beginning but Rome wasn't built in a day.

As for pickups, make sure you are not starting (wherever possible) with F or B moves because those are TERRIBLE for the first turns of a solve.
This applies to any timing method.

One thing I'm a little confused about is what you mean by this:
I keep on struggling to orient the cross and this almost takes 12 seconds I guess. Following J PERM's advice from the video "How To Make Efficient Crosses", I started building the cross with the face upside down instead of making it and then turning it upside down. But guess what? My condition is getting even worse though!
Are you referring to the finishing D moves to align the cross or is it something else?

#### Chinmay47

##### Member
Very true buddy! I will put the same into immediate action! Btw the English is not that bad though!

#### Chinmay47

##### Member
Do a session of solves where you plan as much of the cross as you are able (don't limit yourself to 15 seconds) If you can only plan 3 or even 2 pieces that's where you HAVE to start. If you just keep doing solves you will never break this bad habit. Eventually you will want to be able to do the cross blindfolded. (I know that sounds really hard but after you get better something will just click and you will have an immensely easier time doing a solve).
But you HAVE to practice it, it will be very hard in the beginning but Rome wasn't built in a day.

As for pickups, make sure you are not starting (wherever possible) with F or B moves because those are TERRIBLE for the first turns of a solve.
This applies to any timing method.

One thing I'm a little confused about is what you mean by this:

Are you referring to the finishing D moves to align the cross or is it something else?
Thanks for the help buddy! I will surely try what you suggested.

Btw by these lines I meant that in the beginner method, the cross is made on the top first and then an x2 or a z2 move is done to flip it to the bottom. But unfortunately, I currently use this exact cross-building technique! And when I tried to make the white cross with the white side already on the bottom, it was a real mess!

#### NevEr_QeyX

##### Member
Thanks for the help buddy! I will surely try what you suggested.

Btw by these lines I meant that in the beginner method, the cross is made on the top first and then an x2 or a z2 move is done to flip it to the bottom. But unfortunately, I currently use this exact cross-building technique! And when I tried to make the white cross with the white side already on the bottom, it was a real mess!
Yeah unfortunately it just takes time and solves to get used to that.

Z

#### Zubin Park

##### Guest
Thanks A Lot Buddy! I will try what you suggested. Any tips for faster pickup?
I'm a sub 10 solver, and for me, I'm not really jumpy to get my fingers off the timer and onto the cube. Instead, I position the cube in a way that the first move I make will be a U turn, as it is the "easiest" for me. It may be different for you, however. I take one hand and do the U turn and then put my other hand on the cube. If I put both hands at the exact same time it tenses my hands too much. I'm not saying just put one hand on for the first turn; that wouldn't be efficient at all. I'm suggesting that you have your D or U or R or whatever turn it might be, and have that locked in, so you can focus on your other moves. Eventually, you'll be able to pickup and start without interruption.

#### Chinmay47

##### Member
I'm a sub 10 solver, and for me, I'm not really jumpy to get my fingers off the timer and onto the cube. Instead, I position the cube in a way that the first move I make will be a U turn, as it is the "easiest" for me. It may be different for you, however. I take one hand and do the U turn and then put my other hand on the cube. If I put both hands at the exact same time it tenses my hands too much. I'm not saying just put one hand on for the first turn; that wouldn't be efficient at all. I'm suggesting that you have your D or U or R or whatever turn it might be, and have that locked in, so you can focus on your other moves. Eventually, you'll be able to pickup and start without interruption.
This tip really feels like it would do something unusual to my speed! Thanks a lot! Will surely try it!

Z

#### Zubin Park

##### Guest
This tip really feels like it would do something unusual to my speed! Thanks a lot! Will surely try it!
Yeah, its a bit wacky when you first try it, but its really helpful, for me at least!