Blindsolving Discussion and Help

[Moops]

BH is more efficent since you don't orient before the cylces;use BH.You should still look into the some of the co cases from blah though since corner twisting is still used for bh if the corner is in place but twisted(or you could use 2 cycles, but that is more confusing to memo or explain).And you don't need to learn BH in full to start using it in solves. Fast cubers like Zane slowly started solving the cases they knew and using OP for the rest untill they knew full BH.

^This

Also BH is practically move optimal 3 cycles, Using 8 - 12 move comms to solve 2 corners. Not only does it have a low movecount but it's largely intuitive. The knowledge you attain from being able to create your own algorithms on the go is extremely useful in all blindsolving. Only downside is that it has a very steep learning curve and takes a lot of work to get it really happening in solves.

 

[HEART]

Yeah i'm struggling with comprehending how the cycles work and how i'd memorize them. The cycle seems so backwards, it looking like piece 1 > piece 2 > piece 3. WRONG. It's more like piece 2 > piece 3 > and then piece 3 goes into piece 1 ( buffer )

 

[Ollie]

It's going to take a LONG time, but I've began to write out my algs for 5BLD in the hope that it'll be of use to someone.

In fact, the main point of this is so I can attempt to work out move-optimal 3-cycles (BH) for the whole 5x5x5, starting with wings and midges (I'm already pretty damn close...) and then move onto centers (ignoring corners as it has already been done...)

It's an ambitious project I know, but I feel like I've just learnt and practiced what other people have done without actually contributing anything to the literature. The list will also offer some speed-optimised alternatives and a short description of the commutator - i.e. how it can be used/intuitively changed to solve other cycles .

The question is - has this been done already?

Edit: in fact, this could be something everyone could contribute to, since I won't always be 100% sure if an alg is optimal.

 

[A Leman]

It's going to take a LONG time, but I've began to write out my algs for 5BLD in the hope that it'll be of use to someone.

In fact, the main point of this is so I can attempt to work out move-optimal 3-cycles (BH) for the whole 5x5x5, starting with wings and midges (I'm already pretty damn close...) and then move onto centers (ignoring corners as it has already been done...)

It's an ambitious project I know, but I feel like I've just learnt and practiced what other people have done without actually contributing anything to the literature. The list will also offer some speed-optimised alternatives and a short description of the commutator - i.e. how it can be used/intuitively changed to solve other cycles .

The question is - has this been done already?

Edit: in fact, this could be something everyone could contribute to, since I won't always be 100% sure if an alg is optimal.

If you did this, you would be a hero!!! I already understand the wings and midges since they are so similar to edges but never have a clue about how optimal my centers cases are because the are quite sloppy.

Answer: I don't know, but I have checked the forum very carefully for a centers list and have not found one. I feel that BH Edges is basicly wings except for the cases that have 2 targets on the same 3x3 piece and for those I just use a 1 move conjugate.

Maybe the forum could make a place where we could throw cases on the wiki so the whole community could help you and compare cases?

 

[Cubenovice]

It's going to take a LONG time, but I've began to write out my algs for 5BLD in the hope that it'll be of use to someone.

In fact, the main point of this is so I can attempt to work out move-optimal 3-cycles (BH) for the whole 5x5x5, starting with wings and midges (I'm already pretty damn close...) and then move onto centers (ignoring corners as it has already been done...)

It's an ambitious project I know, but I feel like I've just learnt and practiced what other people have done without actually contributing anything to the literature. The list will also offer some speed-optimised alternatives and a short description of the commutator - i.e. how it can be used/intuitively changed to solve other cycles .

The question is - has this been done already?

Edit: in fact, this could be something everyone could contribute to, since I won't always be 100% sure if an alg is optimal.

Sounds very nice, I would love to understand edge comms

Perhaps you could re-use some info from existing example solves and reconstructions?
I know that Mike and Chris both have at least one 4BLD example solve online (I can look them up later if you like), some stuff could be transferred to 5BLD.

In the spoiler I have a 5BLD example solve I made recently. As I use M2 r2 for edges I only copied the + and X centers.
These cycles are as I actually executed them so that is why sometimes you will find stuff like “r r” instead of r2 when there are cancellations with set up and the actual commutator.
I don’t know how good / bad these algs are. In the worst case they can serve as an example of how not to do it
STM movecount in between ()

Spoiler

SCRAMBLE
Bw2 R Uw U2 F2 L R2 D' F L2 Dw2 U' B' L' Bw Dw' Lw' U2 R2 B Fw' D' Uw2 L D2 Uw L2 U R' B2 L Bw2 Dw2 R2 D Bw' Fw Lw2 Fw2 F2 Dw' R' Fw L B' Fw' D Uw Lw2 B F' Uw2 Lw2 B Lw' Rw' F' L U B'

z2 // orient
// X-centers using fixed buffer Ulb
R' l u l' U' l u' l' U R // Urb-Rbu (10)
D2 r' u2 r' U2 r u2 r' U2 r r D2 // Flu-Dlf (11)
B r U r' u2 r U' r' u2 B' // Fru-Bru (10)
b' u b U2 b' u' b U2 // Urf-Blu (8)
D r r U2 r' d2 r U2 r' d2 r' D' // Dlf-Bld (11)
L2 r U2 r' d r U2 r' d' L2 // Frd-Lbu (10)
f' d2 f U' f' d2 f U // Rbd-Ulf (8)
D' r' r' U r d r' U' r d' r D // Drb-Rfu (11)
L r' U r d' r' U' r d L' // Brd-Lfd (10)
R' f' U2 f d f' U2 f d' R // Rfu-Fld (10)
D2 r' d' r' U r d r' U' r r D2 // Lbd-Dlb (11)
r d2 r' U r d2 r' U' // Fld-Urb (8)

// + centers using fixed buffer Ul
M' u' M' U M u M' U' M M // Lu-Df (9)
S u' S' U' S u S' U // Ub-Fu (8)
Rw b U b' E b U' b' E' Rw' // Ru-Dr (10)
S' u' S U2 S' u S U2 // Bu-Ur (8)
E' b U b' E b U' b' // Bl-Rb (8)
L M d M' U' M d' M' U L' // Lf-Uf (10)
L' E r U2 r' E' r U2 r' L // Ld-Fr (10)
d' M' U' M d M' U M // Rd-Fd (8)
b' b' U b E b' U' b E' b // Db-Br (9)
E r' U2 r E2 r' U2 r E // Rf-Lb (9)
D2 r' r' U2 r E' r' U2 r E r D2 // Dl-Lb (11)

 

[DrKorbin]

It's going to take a LONG time, but I've began to write out my algs for 5BLD in the hope that it'll be of use to someone.

In fact, the main point of this is so I can attempt to work out move-optimal 3-cycles (BH) for the whole 5x5x5, starting with wings and midges (I'm already pretty damn close...) and then move onto centers (ignoring corners as it has already been done...)

It's an ambitious project I know, but I feel like I've just learnt and practiced what other people have done without actually contributing anything to the literature. The list will also offer some speed-optimised alternatives and a short description of the commutator - i.e. how it can be used/intuitively changed to solve other cycles .

The question is - has this been done already?

Edit: in fact, this could be something everyone could contribute to, since I won't always be 100% sure if an alg is optimal.

Interesting. Just yesterday I started to develop a table of algs for X-centers and wrote a python script that finds an optimal alg using selected moves (i.e. <R,r,L,l,U,u>-generated).
As for wings, I've already done that, you can find a table in my signature (but the buffer is UBl).

 

[Cubenovice]

Interesting. Just yesterday I started to develop a table of algs for X-centers and wrote a python script that finds an optimal alg using selected moves (i.e. <R,r,L,l,U,u>-generated).

Now this is interesting!

I do not know anything about Python / programming but I would love to have this / know how to use it

 

[Ollie]

Interesting. Just yesterday I started to develop a table of algs for X-centers and wrote a python script that finds an optimal alg using selected moves (i.e. <R,r,L,l,U,u>-generated).
As for wings, I've already done that, you can find a table in my signature (but the buffer is UBl).

If this works then it would make what I'm doing completely redundant! I'd also be extremely interested in using it. I've already seen your list for wings and was seriously impressed It actually inspired me to do the same for a DFr buffer.

 

[HEART]

was gonna make a thread for this, but figured this would suffice.

For all you experienced BLD'ers out there, has the spark ever vanished for you? Everytime you take off your blindfold, do you doubt yourself anymore? "What if it isn't solved". And when it is, do you still get that feeling of amazement?

I still haven't lost my doubt, or that amazing feeling. Everytime i do it I feel absolute shock and awe.

 

[Moops]

When using 3 cycles comms for 5x5 BLD + Centres what are standard algorithms for dealing with them?

I've tried working it out on my own with UF as my buffer but failed to come up with anything simple and practical.

 

[Zane_C]

For all you experienced BLD'ers out there, has the spark ever vanished for you? Everytime you take off your blindfold, do you doubt yourself anymore? "What if it isn't solved". And when it is, do you still get that feeling of amazement?

If I succeed after doubting myself, and it's a slow time, I don't feel much excitement (unless I'm on a nice success streak). If the attempt is fast, and to my surprise the cube is solved, I certainly experience that feeling of amazement. So that 'spark' that your referring to definitely hasn't vanished for me, but it isn't as prominent as it used to be.

5x5 BLD successes always trigger a spark, regardless of how confident I am in the cube being solved.

When using 3 cycles comms for 5x5 BLD + Centres what are standard algorithms for dealing with them?

I've tried working it out on my own with UF as my buffer but failed to come up with anything simple and practical.

There are many different ways to solve 3 cycles for +centers, so it may be difficult to identify standard algorithms.

Here are some commutator-derived 3-cycles that I think are pretty standard - as in, similar to many other cases.

Uf>Fr>Lf: [r U' r'] E [r U r'] E'
Uf>Fr>Db: M2 [U' r U] M2 [U' r' U]
Uf>Fr>Df: [M' F' M] f2 [M' F M] f2 - in practice, an x rotation should be used for this.
Uf>Fd>Rd: y d [M' U' M] d' [M' U M] y'

There are many more that could be listed, all similar to the ones above. If learn how to use some basic 3x3 edge commutators, it shouldn't take long for +center commutators to catch on.

 

[Noahaha]

One answer BLD question thread blind

If I succeed after doubting myself, and it's a slow time, I don't feel much excitement (unless I'm on a nice success streak). If the attempt is fast, and to my surprise the cube is solved, I certainly experience that feeling of amazement. So that 'spark' that your referring to definitely hasn't vanished for me, but it isn't as prominent as it used to be.

I'm feeling this some too, although I haven't been blind solving nearly as long as you. For me the worst feeling is that I can only get about ten seconds faster and then it all depends on what scramble I get in competition.

 

[DrKorbin]

Uf>Fr>Lf: [r U' r'] E [r U r'] E'
Uf>Fr>Db: M2 [U' r U] M2 [U' r' U]
Uf>Fr>Df: [M' F' M] f2 [M' F M] f2 - in practice, an x rotation should be used for this.
Uf>Fd>Rd: y d [M' U' M] d' [M' U M] y'

I would like to add:
Ub>Uf>Df: U2 [M d2 M'] U2 [M d2 M']
Ub>Ur>Dr: U [S d2 S'] U' [S d2 S']

Btw, Zane, do you use floating buffer in centers?

For me, using floating buffer is a very tight question right now. I want to learn speed-optimal algs for centers, but this will ruin using a floating buffer. On the other hand, if I will use floating buffer, I won't be able to speed-optimize algs because there will be thousands of threecycles.

EDIT: besides, I don't know how to memorize in "floating mode".

 

[Zane_C]

Btw, Zane, do you use floating buffer in centers?

For me, using floating buffer is a very tight question right now. I want to learn speed-optimal algs for centers, but this will ruin using a floating buffer. On the other hand, if I will use floating buffer, I won't be able to speed-optimize algs because there will be thousands of threecycles.

EDIT: besides, I don't know how to memorize in "floating mode".

Yes, I use floating buffers. However, if I can quite easily avoid switching buffers, I'll do so and stick with the same one.

Whenever I decide to switch buffer, I use an image to keep track of the new buffer position. The image is formed by using the 1 letter that corresponds to the new buffer location (eg. If the new buffer is Ufr or 'A', the image is 'acid'). Some people keep track of floating buffers by using nothing but visual memory, but that's too unreliable for me.

A problem I've encounted with floating buffers is forgetting that I've switched buffer. There have been many times where I've needed backtrack and undo commutators, because they've been executed from the wrong buffer. In spite of this, I'm still glad to be using floating buffers, as they can be quite convenient.

 

[Ollie]

3BLD BH Edges - Some better algs please for the following, and then (I think...) I should have BH edges done? Unless they're already move-optimal, then coolio.

DF -> DL -> LF - I have (S) U' [M'] U L' U' [M] U L (S')
DF -> RD -> RF - L2 U' [M'] U L U' [M] U L
DF -> FU -> BU - basically setting up to a U-perm - nowhere near optimal.

 

[DrKorbin]

3BLD BH Edges - Some better algs please for the following, and then (I think...) I should have BH edges done? Unless they're already move-optimal, then coolio.

DF -> DL -> LF - I have (S) U' [M'] U L' U' [M] U L (S')
DF -> RD -> RF - L2 U' [M'] U L U' [M] U L
DF -> FU -> BU - basically setting up to a U-perm - nowhere near optimal.

DF -> DL -> LF: z' R [U M' U', R] R'
DF -> RD -> RF: your alg is pretty cool imho.
DF -> FU -> BU: x y [U' M' U, R2] y' x'

 

[MaeLSTRoM]

3BLD BH Edges - Some better algs please for the following, and then (I think...) I should have BH edges done? Unless they're already move-optimal, then coolio.

DF -> DL -> LF - I have (S) U' [M'] U L' U' [M] U L (S')
DF -> RD -> RF - L2 U' [M'] U L U' [M] U L
DF -> FU -> BU - basically setting up to a U-perm - nowhere near optimal.

For the 3rd one:
F E F' U2 F E' F' U2 ?

 

[A Leman]

3BLD BH Edges - Some better algs please for the following, and then (I think...) I should have BH edges done? Unless they're already move-optimal, then coolio.

DF -> DL -> LF - I have (S) U' [M'] U L' U' [M] U L (S')
DF -> RD -> RF - L2 U' [M'] U L U' [M] U L
DF -> FU -> BU - basically setting up to a U-perm - nowhere near optimal.

The second one is optimal,I do the third one as U'MUMU2M'UM'U, but it can also be done as y' R'E'R U2 R'ER U2 y. The first one looks like a bad case that I don't run into with a UF buffer,try something like z r' UM2U' L' UM2U' Lr z'

 

[Moops]

There are many different ways to solve 3 cycles for +centers, so it may be difficult to identify standard algorithms.

Here are some commutator-derived 3-cycles that I think are pretty standard - as in, similar to many other cases.

Uf>Fr>Lf: [r U' r'] E [r U r'] E'
Uf>Fr>Db: M2 [U' r U] M2 [U' r' U]
Uf>Fr>Df: [M' F' M] f2 [M' F M] f2 - in practice, an x rotation should be used for this.
Uf>Fd>Rd: y d [M' U' M] d' [M' U M] y'

There are many more that could be listed, all similar to the ones above. If learn how to use some basic 3x3 edge commutators, it shouldn't take long for +center commutators to catch on.

I would like to add:
Ub>Uf>Df: U2 [M d2 M'] U2 [M d2 M']
Ub>Ur>Dr: U [S d2 S'] U' [S d2 S']

Thanks guys. That works much better than using M2 for + Centres =P

 

[TheNextFeliks]

Beginner Method for BLD

I have been cubing for a while and decided to start blindfold solving. Do you know any good tutorials (websites, videos, other posts, etc.)?
Thanks