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RyanReese09

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I've never used a 3 cycle edges system before, would I place a 3rd unsolved piece in the 3rd "slot", so to speak, perform the turbo, and have the unsolved piece remain in the buffer, and go from there?

Breaking into a new cycle was obvious, I was more asking as to how to approach it.
 

amostay2004

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I've never used a 3 cycle edges system before, would I place a 3rd unsolved piece in the 3rd "slot", so to speak, perform the turbo, and have the unsolved piece remain in the buffer, and go from there?

Breaking into a new cycle was obvious, I was more asking as to how to approach it.
You just do the same thing you would do in M2. Memo your letters the same way and solve them, so breaking into a new cycle is the same thing.
 

RyanReese09

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The spoiler is somewhat a fail. Tried the scramble out before typing it all out, but I realized I must have scrambled wrong hte first time or something, because this scramble *should* have had a good example of breaking into a new cycle.

Read in spoiler for my lettering scheme (I assume it's standard)

But say I have the cycle of my buffer, to J, and that solves it. Would I then take (for example), the K and bring it up into my UR buffer tomake that go into my buffer to start the new cycle? Apologies Chris, if my example doesn't reflect what you are trying to get me to understand.

I'd do my L and R' setup, clockwise U perm, undo? That's it for new cycle yes?

Also for BH corners, say I have two twisted corners that are swapped, at the very end of corner solving, what should I do? :3. I did some sighted solves with BH/Turbo today (yay) but the last two corners I always ended up doing pochmann style, which sucks if my buffer was already solved.
U2 D' F' D' U2 R2 B F' R' L2 U' R' B' R' L D B2 R' B2 D B2 U R' B' U'

Scramble WG, rotate to YO

This is how I'd approach this in TuRBO. UB is A, BU B, etc all the way around, then LB is J, all the way around the E slice until LD is Q, finishing up with DF being X

First edges, C K
C needs no setup, for K I'd do E2 L', CCW U perm, undo
Next edges, M and Q, M setup is R, Q setup is L2. Then M U M' U2 M U M', undo

Next edges W and P, first I'd do D R2 for W, then L' for P, then M U' M' U2 M U' M', undo

Next edges A and U, B L to setup A, then R2 to setup U, M U M' U2 M U M', undo

Rage quit upon realizing I must have scrambled wrong or something because I tried the scramble before typing this all up and it had a good example of breaking into a new cycle
 

cmhardw

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If a wing edge piece pops out during a 5x5x5 BLD solve, and you complete the solve without it, does this still count as solved? The cube was obviously solved when I stopped the timer, only missing a wing edge that I never replaced after it popped.

5b5) If, after the solve, non functional parts of the puzzle are still defect (like a centre cap of a cube) or not fully rotated (like a 5x5x5 centre piece twisted in its spot), but the puzzle is otherwise unambiguously solved, the puzzle is considered solved. (discretion of the main judge)

I'm wondering about the interpretation of "non-functional" in the above regulation. I would argue that "non-functional" would indicate that the piece is able to be removed without affecting the physical solving of the puzzle (as long as the puzzle is still "unambiguously solved" without it). The example of the twisted 5x5x5 center I find curious, as I would consider an x-center to be a "functional" piece to the 5x5x5, as the solving of this piece is at some point in the solution integral to the solution method. The loss of a wing edge was a bit of a hinderance, but I was still able to solve the puzzle without it. Does this make one single wing edge a "non-functional" piece, or should I go with my gut and say that it is a "functional" piece, in which case my solve would be a DNF?

I am curious as to whether doing what I did would be allowable in a competition? Comments? Interpretations? Right now I am leaning DNF.
 

cmhardw

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But say I have the cycle of my buffer, to J, and that solves it. Would I then take (for example), the K and bring it up into my UR buffer tomake that go into my buffer to start the new cycle? Apologies Chris, if my example doesn't reflect what you are trying to get me to understand.

Basically, the more general theory when breaking a cycle is this:

1) Shoot the buffer to a location in a new cycle. Call this location S for the start of a new cycle.
2) Using the buffer, solve everything in the new cycle
3) When the new cycle is complete, shoot to S one last time to "close out" the new cycle.

So let's look at some made up cycles:
(AJ)(B CD E)

Notice that the (B CD E) cycle is an odd cycle. To solve this you would do: (A JB)

This first will solve the J piece. Now, the J piece needs to be cycled somewhere for this to be a 3 cycle, so we will break into the other cycle at location B. Once we have broken into the (B CD E) cycle, now we must use the buffer to solve the rest of this cycle.

Do: (A CD). Now we need to do (A EB). This last cycle does both steps 2 and 3 in one go. A cycling to E will finish out the cycle we broke into. E cycling to B will shoot to B one last time to "close out" the new cycle.

-------

example 2:
(AJ)(B CD EF)

Notice this time the (B CD EF) cycle is even.

First start with (A JB). This will solve the J piece, then break into the new cycle. Now use the buffer to solve the rest of the cycle:
(A CD EF)

This leaves step 3 where we must shoot to the original location where we broke the cycle one last time to "close out" the new cycle. Lastly do the double swap (AB).

Also for BH corners, say I have two twisted corners that are swapped, at the very end of corner solving, what should I do? :3. I did some sighted solves with BH/Turbo today (yay) but the last two corners I always ended up doing pochmann style, which sucks if my buffer was already solved.

I usually use those two corners, with the the last two edges at the end of the solve, to fix parity. If I understand correctly, everything is solved for corners with the exception of those two corners? If they are twisted in an "unbalanced" way, meaning that the buffer is twisted too, then I would break into those corners with a new cycle, solve, then close out the new cycle.

U2 D' F' D' U2 R2 B F' R' L2 U' R' B' R' L D B2 R' B2 D B2 U R' B' U'

Scramble WG, rotate to YO

This is how I'd approach this in TuRBO. UB is A, BU B, etc all the way around, then LB is J, all the way around the E slice until LD is Q, finishing up with DF being X

First edges, C K
C needs no setup, for K I'd do E2 L', CCW U perm, undo
Next edges, M and Q, M setup is R, Q setup is L2. Then M U M' U2 M U M', undo

Next edges W and P, first I'd do D R2 for W, then L' for P, then M U' M' U2 M U' M', undo

Next edges A and U, B L to setup A, then R2 to setup U, M U M' U2 M U M', undo

Rage quit upon realizing I must have scrambled wrong or something because I tried the scramble before typing this all up and it had a good example of breaking into a new cycle

I know you probably went through a lot of work to write this up, but it's difficult to try to learn your lettering scheme, which you are clearly using very fluently since it's your scheme. Would you mind translating your cycles into Speffz? This would make it easier for us to follow, as I have to be honest I'm confused when you refer to the letters in your scheme, because what comes to mind for me are the same letters, but in my scheme.
 

amostay2004

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But say I have the cycle of my buffer, to J, and that solves it. Would I then take (for example), the K and bring it up into my UR buffer tomake that go into my buffer to start the new cycle? Apologies Chris, if my example doesn't reflect what you are trying to get me to understand.

I'd do my L and R' setup, clockwise U perm, undo? That's it for new cycle yes?
Yes, if K is not solved obviously. And that there're other edges still not solved.

Also for your first edge cycle in your spoiler, you could just do d2 L' instead of E2 L', or even U R'
 

RyanReese09

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Basically, the more general theory when breaking a cycle is this:

1) Shoot the buffer to a location in a new cycle. Call this location S for the start of a new cycle.
2) Using the buffer, solve everything in the new cycle
3) When the new cycle is complete, shoot to S one last time to "close out" the new cycle.

So let's look at some made up cycles:
(AJ)(B CD E)

Notice that the (B CD E) cycle is an odd cycle. To solve this you would do: (A JB)

This first will solve the J piece. Now, the J piece needs to be cycled somewhere for this to be a 3 cycle, so we will break into the other cycle at location B. Once we have broken into the (B CD E) cycle, now we must use the buffer to solve the rest of this cycle.

Do: (A CD). Now we need to do (A EB). This last cycle does both steps 2 and 3 in one go. A cycling to E will finish out the cycle we broke into. E cycling to B will shoot to B one last time to "close out" the new cycle.

-------

example 2:
(AJ)(B CD EF)

Notice this time the (B CD EF) cycle is even.

First start with (A JB). This will solve the J piece, then break into the new cycle. Now use the buffer to solve the rest of the cycle:
(A CD EF)

This leaves step 3 where we must shoot to the original location where we broke the cycle one last time to "close out" the new cycle. Lastly do the double swap (AB).



I usually use those two corners, with the the last two edges at the end of the solve, to fix parity. If I understand correctly, everything is solved for corners with the exception of those two corners? If they are twisted in an "unbalanced" way, meaning that the buffer is twisted too, then I would break into those corners with a new cycle, solve, then close out the new cycle.



I know you probably went through a lot of work to write this up, but it's difficult to try to learn your lettering scheme, which you are clearly using very fluently since it's your scheme. Would you mind translating your cycles into Speffz? This would make it easier for us to follow, as I have to be honest I'm confused when you refer to the letters in your scheme, because what comes to mind for me are the same letters, but in my scheme.
I got my answer from amos, but I am having the exact same difficulties upon trying to read through your posts, my lettering scheme is obviously different than yours, and as a result I can't follow the examples unless I go pull up speffz scheme.

But alas, next time I ask a question relating to examples I'll surely try to translate it into speffz for you all. The only real reason the spoiler is still there is because I felt no need to delete it, and could be used as a reference for my TuRBO solving. After writing that all up I sure as heck wasn't going to delete it :p

tl;dr though, I just find an unsolved edge and during the "final" execution of the cycle, I shoot an unsolved edge in there and just go from there yes?
Yes, if K is not solved obviously. And that there're other edges still not solved.

Also for your first edge cycle in your spoiler, you could just do d2 L' instead of E2 L', or even U R'

True, and d2 would be faster then E2. I just like affecting as little pieces as possible during setups, even if they do exactly the same thing :p. I chose that kind of setup so it would give me a U perm, and as I don't know all the TuRBo algs yet, I thought it'd be easy (since the opportunity presented itself) to setup into a U perm. In real solves when I get faster at TuRBo I expect I'll take an obvious setup into the alg instead of hopping around to get the cases I want.

And thanks amos. I'll look back upon these questions one day and realize how noobish these questions must seem. Hopefully my first TuRBo/BH corner solve will come by next week. I'm practicing sighted solves right now :).

If you don't do A9's by cancellations (can't find one off hand), and just do a 1 move setup, is it *technically* the same as doing an orthogonal (10mover)?. Setup, 8mover, undo? I know the classifications would be different since A9's could be solved in 9 moves, but yeah. Just a little question, so much to learn about BLD, it's amazing, I love it :D!

Edit-Just now understood you Chris, we are on the same page, I understand.
 
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amostay2004

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True, and d2 would be faster then E2. I just like affecting as little pieces as possible during setups, even if they do exactly the same thing :p. I chose that kind of setup so it would give me a U perm, and as I don't know all the TuRBo algs yet, I thought it'd be easy (since the opportunity presented itself) to setup into a U perm. In real solves when I get faster at TuRBo I expect I'll take an obvious setup into the alg instead of hopping around to get the cases I want.
But U R' also gives a U perm. In fact when you get used to it enough you can simply cancel the R' into the U perm
If you don't do A9's by cancellations (can't find one off hand), and just do a 1 move setup, is it *technically* the same as doing an orthogonal (10mover)?. Setup, 8mover, undo? I know the classifications would be different since A9's could be solved in 9 moves, but yeah. Just a little question, so much to learn about BLD, it's amazing, I love it :D!

Technically you're still solving an A9 case, but you're solving it in a similar way to solving an orthogonal. Call it whatever you want though, as long as it's solved =p

This brings me to a question for Chris. I think it's been asked before but how would you differentiate BH from doing 3 cycles without preorientation? I've always thought the main difference is that BH always uses optimal moves, which is why I don't say I use BH corners, but more like freestyle. Like in Ryan's case if he uses a 10 mover to solve a 9 moves case, I wouldn't say he's really using BH. Correct me if I'm wrong, and if BH simply means solving 3 cycles with a fixed buffer without preorientation
 

toastman

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I honestly can't imagine anyone not being able to use audio memo for just corners after a bit of practice. But I guess I would say just use journey for all pieces if you're really convinced that you can't do it.

I'm a noobhead. I sometimes I need 2-3 *minutes* to memo my corners and I can do audio (when I choose to). I just keep looping and looping the list in my head
E.g.
CTWXBDHD

I go "C, C, C, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat-wuh, Cat-wuh, Cat-wuh, cat-wax, cat-wax, cat-wax, cat-wax-buh, cat-wax-buh, cat-wax-bed, cat-wax-bed, cat-wax-bed-huhhh, cat-wax-bed-huhhhh, Cat-wax-bed-head". Then just keep looping "cat-wax-bed-head" while I solve.

That said, I often fall back to visual because right now for me it's easier and feels "safer" although it's slower. e.g. "picture a cat, waxing down a bed as if it were a surfboard, then head-butting the head of the bed, Cat-wax-bed-head"
 

aronpm

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I'm a noobhead. I sometimes I need 2-3 *minutes* to memo my corners and I can do audio (when I choose to). I just keep looping and looping the list in my head
E.g.
CTWXBDHD

I go "C, C, C, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat, Cat-wuh, Cat-wuh, Cat-wuh, cat-wax, cat-wax, cat-wax, cat-wax-buh, cat-wax-buh, cat-wax-bed, cat-wax-bed, cat-wax-bed-huhhh, cat-wax-bed-huhhhh, Cat-wax-bed-head". Then just keep looping "cat-wax-bed-head" while I solve.

That said, I often fall back to visual because right now for me it's easier and feels "safer" although it's slower. e.g. "picture a cat, waxing down a bed as if it were a surfboard, then head-butting the head of the bed, Cat-wax-bed-head"

My advice would be to not say the letters (or at least, don't say it as much). Wait until you've got the pair, then say the word. BTW that's more of a story than visual. Visual is like "oya this piece goes there and then this goes here and this looks like a circle and that's a triangle TAP TAP TAP TAP TAP" (Disregard that example... I clearly don't do visual)
 

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My advice would be to not say the letters (or at least, don't say it as much). Wait until you've got the pair, then say the word. BTW that's more of a story than visual. Visual is like "oya this piece goes there and then this goes here and this looks like a circle and that's a triangle TAP TAP TAP TAP TAP" (Disregard that example... I clearly don't do visual)

Thanks (Giga) Puddy! You rule.
Yeah, I have been doing "pairs/quads" for corners, and "sets of six" for edges recently.
What should I call it, "Image memo"? E.g. last night, HGKOCU - HG (Nelson) Knocking-Out a Cow Udder. Six (edge) stickers memoed in a single image.
 

aronpm

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Thanks (Giga) Puddy! You rule.
Yeah, I have been doing "pairs/quads" for corners, and "sets of six" for edges recently.
What should I call it, "Image memo"? E.g. last night, HGKOCU - HG (Nelson) Knocking-Out a Cow Udder. Six (edge) stickers memoed in a single image.

If you're just saying it, it's either a sentence or a story. If you're visualizing it happening on a route/in a room, it's journey/roman rooms.
 

toastman

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If you're just saying it, it's either a sentence or a story. If you're visualizing it happening on a route/in a room, it's journey/roman rooms.

I guess it's "sentence" then? I sort of just visualise it in space. As in, black all around, nothing but that image (like an animated gif) of that crazy dude punching an udder. But I do sort of "say" the sentence when solving the pieces (not out loud). "Haitch, Gee, Knocks...Out...Cow...Udder". (Alas, execution is my problem). Thanks again.
 

theace

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Where can I find a good 3op tutorial? I came across some on youtube but they weren't in english. I've tried looking from my cell only really so...

I've given up on Pochmann at the moment. I'm gonna try 3op. If it works for me, fine, else chuck bld...
 

peedu

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Hi,

Recently my accuracy rate has gone down. Below 50%/day.
I'm practicing somewhat irregularly because I just can't find the 5 minutes to sit alone and do a BLD.
Today I got 3 DNF-s in the morning, followed by 1 success, DNF, success and 2 DNF-s. So it is 2 out of 7.

Should I go slow and focus more on accuracy? I was not rushing today on any of the solves.

I could beat the BLD world record, but with the probability of 1:43,252,003,274,489,856,000 times the turns I may perform. :)


Peedu
 
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