[Help Thread] CFOP Discussion

[Seanliu]

Solves Analysing Help

Recently I've seen a thread stating that if you time all the CFOP stages separately, then do some calculations, then you can work out where you are being slow. Ive done the measurements, and want to do the calculations, but I'm confused. Help me out here!

Cross: 2.502
F2L: 10.34
OLL: 3.148
PLL: 3.48
____________
Cube: 19.47

The problem is, I am a 22 second solver. So am I right in crediting the 1~2 seconds gap to recognition? Apart from recog, what else do I need to improve on? I'll post a vid if I can.

Thanks!
--Sean

 

[Tom606060]

your cross is fine. For now, just work on f2l recog and learn a few tricks for insertion. Also, if you use 1-look OLL and PLL, 3 sec is a bit slow. You should drill algs until you can sub 2 them.

 

[Seanliu]

your cross is fine. For now, just work on f2l recog and learn a few tricks for insertion. Also, if you use 1-look OLL and PLL, 3 sec is a bit slow. You should drill algs until you can sub 2 them.

Actually, I use 2-Look PLL for G-Perms and 2-Look OLL.
I timed the PLL with a G-Perm (worst case - have to do U then A perm), and the OLL with L-case (I really rarely get dot cases) so Fw Sexy Move Fw' then whatever comes next

Here are my splits:

Cross: 1.5
F2L: 9
OLL: 3.5
PLL: 3

That should give me a 16 second average, but I normally get an 18.5 second average. Where is my problem?

LL is a bit slow... Drill the algs like Tom said.

 

[Hypocrism]

Recently I've seen a thread stating that if you time all the CFOP stages separately, then do some calculations, then you can work out where you are being slow. Ive done the measurements, and want to do the calculations, but I'm confused. Help me out here!

Cross: 2.502
F2L: 10.34
OLL: 3.148
PLL: 3.48
____________
Cube: 19.47

The problem is, I am a 22 second solver. So am I right in crediting the 1~2 seconds gap to recognition? Apart from recog, what else do I need to improve on? I'll post a vid if I can.

Thanks!
--Sean

-Cross can be improved - 7 moves should only take a second!
-F2L can be practiced around your time by doing untimed solves and BLD pairs, and practicing cross-F2L transition or pair prediction.
-Full PLL. Hold off on OLL for now.

 

[dannah]

i learnt the fridrich method at youcandothecube.com when i averaged around 40-49 seconds and now average around 30- 35 seconds should i really learn full PLL yet i am only just learning part 2 of 2 look OLL

 

[TDM]

i learnt the fridrich method at youcandothecube.com when i averaged around 40-49 seconds and now average around 30- 35 seconds should i really learn full PLL yet i am only just learning part 2 of 2 look OLL

Finish learning 4-look LL, and learn F2L if you haven't already. After you've done both and are comfortable with using them, then learn PLL.

 

[mafergut]

Hi,
Some questions that I hope can help this 44-year-old cuber improve a bit faster.

Things I've done and didn't work well:
- Stop cubing for a while (a week or two). The expected speed increase did not happen after that.
- Training a different thing, in this case 4x4. I enjoyed 4x4 but after coming back to 3x3 I was a bit confused for a while (like an Ao50 or more). Same happens with 2x2.

Thing's I've done that worked or seemed to work:
- Try not to go full speed but at a "comfortable" speed. Very good singles are now less frequent but averages and consistency noticeably improved as well as lookahead during F2L.
- Changed from a fast cube (Maru-lubbed Chilong) to a more controllable one (silicone-wt-3-lubbed Sulong). I lock less and make less OLL/PLL mistakes.

Things I'm doing and could be working but I'm not sure yet:
- Started practicing OH (lefty, well I'm right-handed / quasi-ambidextrous, but I do OH with my left, as most cubers). I'm terrible at OH but it could be helping me in 2H.

Things I know I should do 'cos they would help me improve:
- I need to take the time to change some PLLs / OLLs that are terrible.
- I need to improve my cross-to-F2L transition but I can't seem to be able to do it unless the 1st pair is clear from inspection, which I can only do in extremely easy cases.
- Can you predict OLL while doing the last pair and PLL while doing OLL? I can only rarely do this.
- Optimize my AUF/rotation+PLL strategies and overall PLL recognition without cube rotation (looking around the cube).

Things I'm doing right? Wrong? Things that would give me the most benefit/cost? Other things I'm missing?

Sorry for the long post but I think it can help others as well if the great speedcubers out there can share their views

 

[Amress]

I rarely predict OLL while inserting the last pair. I sometimes will do an OLS of some sort, but besides that I don't even try to predict OLL. On the other hand, I predict PLL very frequently, mainly because I use edge control while inserting the last pair and I do a COLL of some sort.

 

[mafergut]

Thanks! The only cases I can predict PLL is when it is correctly oriented or even correctly oriented and AUFed, e.g. I am finishing the OLL and all of a sudden I see the pattern for the Y-perm (opposite corner in the middle of two solved sides). Some times this has happened when the OLL ends with F' and I say, damn! I almost was able to cancel the F' F into the Y-perm, but I never have been able to do that, just realize it so that I don't have to wait even a milisecond in recognising the PLL case and as soon as I finish the F' I can do the Y-perm outright. This can happen less that 1% of the time, though.

 

[GuRoux]

Hi,
Some questions that I hope can help this 44-year-old cuber improve a bit faster.

Things I've done and didn't work well:
- Stop cubing for a while (a week or two). The expected speed increase did not happen after that.
- Training a different thing, in this case 4x4. I enjoyed 4x4 but after coming back to 3x3 I was a bit confused for a while (like an Ao50 or more). Same happens with 2x2.

Thing's I've done that worked or seemed to work:
- Try not to go full speed but at a "comfortable" speed. Very good singles are now less frequent but averages and consistency noticeably improved as well as lookahead during F2L.
- Changed from a fast cube (Maru-lubbed Chilong) to a more controllable one (silicone-wt-3-lubbed Sulong). I lock less and make less OLL/PLL mistakes.

Things I'm doing and could be working but I'm not sure yet:
- Started practicing OH (lefty, well I'm right-handed / quasi-ambidextrous, but I do OH with my left, as most cubers). I'm terrible at OH but it could be helping me in 2H.

Things I know I should do 'cos they would help me improve:
- I need to take the time to change some PLLs / OLLs that are terrible.
- I need to improve my cross-to-F2L transition but I can't seem to be able to do it unless the 1st pair is clear from inspection, which I can only do in extremely easy cases.
- Can you predict OLL while doing the last pair and PLL while doing OLL? I can only rarely do this.
- Optimize my AUF/rotation+PLL strategies and overall PLL recognition without cube rotation (looking around the cube).

Things I'm doing right? Wrong? Things that would give me the most benefit/cost? Other things I'm missing?

Sorry for the long post but I think it can help others as well if the great speedcubers out there can share their views

you can usually tell where you need to improve by looking at your split. how fast is your cross? f2l? oll? pll? I don't do cfop so i wouldn't know, but i'm sure someone can tell where it is easiest for you to improve just by these numbers.

 

[mafergut]

you can usually tell where you need to improve by looking at your split. how fast is your cross? f2l? oll? pll? I don't do cfop so i wouldn't know, but i'm sure someone can tell where it is easiest for you to improve just by these numbers.

Yep. For a, let's say good (for me) but not great solve, around 18.x my splits are:
Cross: Around 2sec
F2L: Around 10sec
LL: Around 6sec

A bit more wide ranges would be:
Cross: Around 1.5 - 2.5 sec
F2L: Around 9 - 12 sec
LL: Around 4.5 - 7 sec
Those would give a theoretical minimum of 15 (my full-step PB is 14.97, so it's a quite good estimate) and a maximum of 21.5. Of course I usually do worse than that but I consider anything over 22 a bad time for me and they usually have some kind of little (or big) mistake.

 

[GuRoux]

Yep. For a, let's say good (for me) but not great solve, around 18.x my splits are:
Cross: Around 2sec
F2L: Around 10sec
LL: Around 6sec

A bit more wide ranges would be:
Cross: Around 1.5 - 2.5 sec
F2L: Around 9 - 12 sec
LL: Around 4.5 - 7 sec
Those would give a theoretical minimum of 15 (my full-step PB is 14.97, so it's a quite good estimate) and a maximum of 21.5. Of course I usually do worse than that but I consider anything over 22 a bad time for me and they usually have some kind of little (or big) mistake.

i would say your cross and last layer are pretty good. probably just work on reducing pauses in f2l.

 

[transatlantic]

Ok so i have one of the new rubies cubes(not the speed cube) that is broken in and lubed. I'm getting a Moyu Aolong Stickerless. will the aolong help my times? I know the full beginners method but i use Friedrich's method. I know the intuitive F2L and the easy F2L tricks. I know some F2L algs, but i haven't learned the ones for the locked up pairs because i can just separate them and insert them. I know the 2 look OLL and PLL, some other OLL lags and the J perm, y perm, v perm, z perm and all the triggers. Right now my problem is that I'm not that great at finger tricks and i don't know how to move the front and back face without regripping and i do a wrist turn instead of the ring finger flip on my M moves. can anyone help with that? also what should i learn first, all the F2Ls, PLLs or OLLs? I just want to get to 30 sec solves. What do you guys use, Friedrich or Xs and Os or something else? any help would be great Thanks!

 

[ketchuphater999]

Ok so i have one of the new rubies cubes(not the speed cube) that is broken in and lubed. I'm getting a Moyu Aolong Stickerless. will the aolong help my times? I know the full beginners method but i use Friedrich's method. I know the intuitive F2L and the easy F2L tricks. I know some F2L algs, but i haven't learned the ones for the locked up pairs because i can just separate them and insert them. I know the 2 look OLL and PLL, some other OLL lags and the J perm, y perm, v perm, z perm and all the triggers. Right now my problem is that I'm not that great at finger tricks and i don't know how to move the front and back face without regripping and i do a wrist turn instead of the ring finger flip on my M moves. can anyone help with that? also what should i learn first, all the F2Ls, PLLs or OLLs? I just want to get to 30 sec solves. What do you guys use, Friedrich or Xs and Os or something else? any help would be great Thanks!

B moves are pretty much nonexistent in algs. If you have to, you can still do a regrip to do an F move, but you could just use your index finger without moving your whole hand. Basically, just practice the fingertricks(a lot), including the M slices(M' can be fingertricked always, but M moves you can just wrist turn)
You're not gonna suddenly go from 1:15 to 30 in a week, it will probably take a couple months. Just be patient and practice. Drill your algorithms, try to get each one sub-4. Get your cross to be consistently sub-4, and your f2l+cross sub-20.


one last thing: call it cfop, not fridrich. It's more accurate.

 

[Smiles]

Ok so i have one of the new rubies cubes(not the speed cube) that is broken in and lubed. I'm getting a Moyu Aolong Stickerless. will the aolong help my times? I know the full beginners method but i use Friedrich's method. I know the intuitive F2L and the easy F2L tricks. I know some F2L algs, but i haven't learned the ones for the locked up pairs because i can just separate them and insert them. I know the 2 look OLL and PLL, some other OLL lags and the J perm, y perm, v perm, z perm and all the triggers. Right now my problem is that I'm not that great at finger tricks and i don't know how to move the front and back face without regripping and i do a wrist turn instead of the ring finger flip on my M moves. can anyone help with that? also what should i learn first, all the F2Ls, PLLs or OLLs? I just want to get to 30 sec solves. What do you guys use, Friedrich or Xs and Os or something else? any help would be great Thanks!

omg i googled xs and os method for those who don't know it's just corners first, but i didn't check out the actual steps. the guy in the video is so uninformed it's funny.

you're already quite a way into fridrich (CFOP is what most people call it), so i suggest continuing. you could also check out the ZZ method.
you can learn some F2L algs but try to conceptualize it and do it intuitively.

you've done a good job identifying your weaknesses, i dont think we can help you on turning technique that much. just practice it. flicking a cube with your fingers in all sorts of ways isn't a natural human movement so just keep at it and it'll feel okay.

 

[Rocky0701]

Welcome! Yes, an AoLong should help your times because it will give you the ability to finger trick. The only reason you can't finger trick now is because you are using a Rubik's brand which is completely normal because they are pretty impossible to finger trick on. For the F2L, it is best to learn intuitively instead of just memorizing the algs so later on you will be able to do it from multiple angles with ease. For cases that you have trouble with try watching example solves and seeing how others solve certain cases which will give you some more tricks and stuff. You don't need to learn any more LL stuff yet, but once you get about sub 40 would be a good time to finish learning full PLL, but you shouldn't learn full OLL until you are around sub 25. Doing M moves with your wrist is fine and also just because you are using a Rubik's brand still. Once you get your AoLong, train yourself to doing it with your middle or ring finger though and drill Z or H perms over and over until you get good at them. For F moves you can either use your thumbs from pushing the bottom corners up if that makes sense or rotate and do them with your pointer finger like you do U moves. You should never really have to use B moves except for like 2-3 OLL algs or Vperms, but really the best way is to just rotate. Good luck! I hope that helped.

 

[qqwref]

Practice.

 

[ketchuphater999]

Welcome! Yes, an AoLong should help your times because it will give you the ability to finger trick. The only reason you can't finger trick now is because you are using a Rubik's brand which is completely normal because they are pretty impossible to finger trick on. For the F2L, it is best to learn intuitively instead of just memorizing the algs so later on you will be able to do it from multiple angles with ease. For cases that you have trouble with try watching example solves and seeing how others solve certain cases which will give you some more tricks and stuff. You don't need to learn any more LL stuff yet, but once you get about sub 40 would be a good time to finish learning full PLL, but you shouldn't learn full OLL until you are around sub 25. Doing M moves with your wrist is fine and also just because you are using a Rubik's brand still. Once you get your AoLong, train yourself to doing it with your middle or ring finger though and drill Z or H perms over and over until you get good at them. For F moves you can either use your thumbs from pushing the bottom corners up if that makes sense or rotate and do them with your pointer finger like you do U moves. You should never really have to use B moves except for like 2-3 OLL algs or Vperms, but really the best way is to just rotate. Good luck! I hope that helped.

I think that the point at which to learn full PLL/OLL varies a lot for most people. I learned full PLL at about 28s average, and I still haven't learned full OLL at a 13s average(not comp D: stupid stress). I do need to learn full OLL, but it's not at all required to get sub-30. PLL maybe.

You should watch some of cyotheking's tutorials on PLL fingertricks. They work pretty damn well for me.

 

[Rocky0701]

I think that the point at which to learn full PLL/OLL varies a lot for most people. I learned full PLL at about 28s average, and I still haven't learned full OLL at a 13s average(not comp D: stupid stress). I do need to learn full OLL, but it's not at all required to get sub-30. PLL maybe.

You should watch some of cyotheking's tutorials on PLL fingertricks. They work pretty damn well for me.

Yes I also think it varies, I was just giving my opinion of the barriers that he should be at least at before considering learning them. I still only know about 2/3 of the OLLs.

 

[natezach728]

Practice. You have only been cubing for a little while. You can't be fast at the start, but you will work up to it.