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[Help Thread] F2L Discussion and Help

Discussion in 'Cubing Help & Questions' started by doubleyou, Apr 19, 2007.

  1. doubleyou

    doubleyou Member

    267
    1
    Feb 25, 2007
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    I have not been practicing Fridrich F2L more than a few weeks.

    I wrote these personal notes for helping myself out getting better.
    if you have any thoughts feel free to post them.

    my biggest problem is to spot the two pieces (looking ahead). putting them together is really intuitiv when you get the hang of it. the challenge here is to know the fastest way to do it. pairing up can be done in many ways. some ways can just be done in less moves than others.

    I found that once you can cathegorize the sitations in your head it becomes easy to "find" the solution to it.

    I cathegorize as follows:

    1. pieces already next to each other
    2. seperate pieces

    pairs can either already be solved correctly or you have to take them apart and bring them back together correctly.

    seperate pieces "just" have to be put together corectly.

    when you work the pieces around the top layer remember to use an unsolved slot.

    most of the time you have to bring one of the two pieces into the f2l keeping one piece in the top layer. from there you can position it so when the other piece is taken back they are in either a pair or a potenstional set.

    moves from here is found in the very basic solution.


    also, please correct me if you find errors :)

    -Sigurd
     
    _zoux likes this.
  2. pjk

    pjk Administrator Staff Member

    5,851
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    Mar 13, 2006
    Bangkok
    WCA:
    2007KELL02
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    That is almost exactly how I thought of it when I started. I now really don't even think about them when I solve. The best solves are the ones when you don't need to think much. ;)
     
  3. Same for me. If they are connected, but not in the right way, I do a move like R U2 R', R' U2 R, F U2 F' or F' U2 F always to break them up. All it takes is practice, practice, practice. (yesterday I could barely do sub 60, today I did sub 50 on average. I think it will take 2 more weeks to get back into the sub 30 on average range)
     
  4. Erik

    Erik Member

    Ok some tips on recognition, and the best pair:
    1. After the cross there is a big chance that 2 of the pieces are in the upper layer so start scanning that first and not in the slots.
    2. Mostly (not always) look for the corner and then the edge.
    3. Try to spot the 'best' pair.
    4. Try to solve it effective.
    5. see the above 4...
     
  5. I already do 1, 2 and 4 (I am faster if I don't do 4), but 3 is too much to ask at the moment. 5 is a problem because of 3 :)

    I think I should just start doing 100 cubes in a row a day to get the hang of it. I will learn, but (for me) intuitive <> fast.
     
  6. pjk

    pjk Administrator Staff Member

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    Mar 13, 2006
    Bangkok
    WCA:
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    As far as the way I went from transitioning from beginners to Fridrich F2L was this:
    1) I was averaging around 45-50 seconds using pure beginners, mostly 5-7LLL
    2) Switched over, and took me about a week to get to around 50 seconds.
    3) As far went on, I learned new PLLs and OLLs, got down to around 35 by May last year.
    4) Throughout the summer, I got to around 27 second avg. or so. Took me about another month to get to 25.
    5) To get from 25 to 20 second avg. took me nearly 4 months (I only practiced a tiny bit for 1 month of those, the rest were normal practicing)
    6) I am now just under 19 second avg normally. A 21 or 22 second solve is becoming a very horrible solve, while a 15-16.5 second is being a good solve, 13 being a very good.

    I am curious how long it will take me to get sub-15. I am hoping to be around 16 avg by the US Open. Throughout your time of practice, you think you are making no improvements. Continue to work at it and practice, and your times will begin to decrease with practice, even if you don't think you are learning, you are. Good luck and have fun!
     
  7. ExoCorsair

    ExoCorsair Member

    1,719
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    Dec 18, 2006
    WCA:
    2007CHOI01
    YouTube:
    ExoCorsair
    I have a question, if I am used to solving the cube holding the cross on left, is it worthwhile to get used to solving F2L with the cross on bottom?
     
  8. dChan

    dChan Member

    Well Leyan Lo does his cross on the left and he's fast- he does his F2L on the left also I believe. It is definetly faster than cross on the top, but I don't know if it is faster than cross on the bottom. If you are used to cross on the left I really wouldn't bother with changing, it is a matter of preference. Speedcubing.com gives algorithms for both on the bottom and on the left so either way is good.
     
  9. pjk

    pjk Administrator Staff Member

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    Cross on left and right are proven to be just as quick as on bottom. Leyan does solve the entire F2L on the left.
     
  10. dChan

    dChan Member

    Yeah, that is what I thought because the algs on his site are for the left-side. I was thinking about learning this, but I ended up learning the regular way.

    What about algorithms for OLL, and PLL on the right side? That might be interesting.
     
  11. Johannes91

    Johannes91 Member

    1,341
    11
    Mar 28, 2006
    Has someone averaged sub-11 with cross on left or right?
     
  12. Erik

    Erik Member

    Sub-11???? I think no one has ever averaged sub-11... (not included the chan movie ) Though I know of some who averaged sub-13.
     
  13. Johannes91

    Johannes91 Member

    1,341
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    Mar 28, 2006
    Huh? Do you think that the video is fake? Harris is pretty quiet about his records, but he IS fast.

    But if you don't believe it, then fine. There are cubers who have averaged sub-12 with cross on bottom. Has someone done that with cross on left/right?
     
  14. pjk

    pjk Administrator Staff Member

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    Okay, okay, sorry, I shouldn't have said proven to be just as fast. However, Leyan has averages sub-14 w/ cross on the left. How many people have avg'd sub-12 overall? 2? That is hard to compare with anything when there are that few. And I don't see many people learning with F2L on the left, which also limits our comparison.
     
  15. Erik

    Erik Member

    I don't say the vid is fake, I think it is very real but he had loads of easy scrambles, still a very good job :)
     
  16. alexc

    alexc Member

    How did you practice F2L?

    Ok, this question is aimed mainly at sub 15 cubers, because they have the most experience. (and the fastest F2Ls!) Ok, there are 3 things I would like to do in the next month or two in order to decrease my F2L to a consistent 9-11 on average. Minimize move count, increase look ahead, and minimize cube rotations. Does anybody have a good technique for practicing these 3 areas. I've heard about using metronomes, stopping in the middle of a pair and finding the next one, and all this other stuff. Personally, what have you tried and what has really helped your F2L the most?
     
  17. darkzelkova

    darkzelkova Member

    267
    0
    Dec 30, 2007
    Canada
    I'm not the person to ask - but I think just doing it slowly, without stopping can help. Also the metronome. Another thing would be to learn the algorithms, that cuts down your move count per pair as you are doing the optimal method. But yeah just practice a lot. And hope that I'm not the only person who replys xD
     
  18. alexc

    alexc Member

    I do know algs for F2L already, I never learned it intuitively. But I do understand how the algs work know, I think that is very important.
     
  19. darkzelkova

    darkzelkova Member

    267
    0
    Dec 30, 2007
    Canada
    Yeah then skip that xD I think the most important part of f2l is practice. And maybe try to find more cases (i.e get more than one pair at once)
     
  20. Lotsofsloths

    Lotsofsloths Member

    1,253
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    Sep 6, 2007
    Williamsburg, VA
    WCA:
    2007SAHA01
    YouTube:
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    Multi slotting techniques?
     

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