The New Method / Substep / Concept Idea Thread

[Teoidus]

After some thought I agree with the other comments here on starting with LBL. Now I'm thinking as follows:

LBL for F2L, then LL: EO CP CO EP -> CFOP F2L + LL with full EPLL -> rotationless CFOP F2L (sledge to orient bad edges) + LL with one-look CO and advanced CP recog -> EOCross -> EOLine + blockbuilding F2L + COLL/EPLL

I feel like people are saying the LL can be completed in any way, but I really think this specific progression is what should be taught in order to allow for smoother transition into ZZ.

 

[Shiv3r]

LBL goes to CFOP. please dont teach that. If we want people to learn ZZ, Edge orientation early on has to be larned

 

[Teoidus]

Well, there's not a very easy way to introduce EO early on without it seeming completely arbitrary to a beginner (as adimare mentioned, a beginner really doesn't have much use for it). Arbitrariness doesn't really help much in garnering interest (why do this weird EO thing to insert F2L edges when you could just do normal LBL?), so either this progression or we find a very different beginner method that could lead into ZZ

Perhaps the best way to do this after all is just to introduce EO right off the bat--but not in full. So it would go like this:
1) Orient U and D face edges
2) Orient E edges
3) Make the line
4) Blockbuild the F2L
5) LL: EO(skipped), CP(Niklas), CO(Sune), EP(Ua)

With this it would be important to explain why the orientation step is useful (basically explaining the benefits of reduction) and why a beginner should care about it.

 

[Shiv3r]

what about teaching how to orient U and D layer edges instead, then do the E edges later on?

 

[Shiv3r]

because I think that would be easier to grasp for noobs.

 

[Teoidus]

I think keeping them as two different steps should be simplification enough--if don't orient E edges in the very beginning, you run into the same problem as my initial idea. To a beginner, there's no reason to do an alg before inserting an edge with another alg when there are many many resources that tell you to just rotate to the proper position and do one alg. Beginners won't necessarily see the benefit of minimizing rotations

 

[Shiv3r]

youre right.

 

[Shiv3r]

Beginners won't necessarily see the benefit of minimizing rotations

tell them that it makes it easier later on.
could you create the line then orient E and D edges?

 

[Teoidus]

That would make EO a lot more difficult. You'd have to break the line every time you wanted to orient stuff. Plus, normal ZZ makes EO before line, so it would teach things backwards. Definitely EO first

 

[Shiv3r]

good Idea!
now lets make a tutorial.

 

[Vexatious]

But that takes away the advantages of ZZ- 2gen without rotations


Edit: never mind didn't see latest post

 

[Shiv3r]

split it up into D layer EO->E slice EO maybe?

 

[Vexatious]

Do you have a YouTube?

 

[Shiv3r]

Do you have a YouTube?

me, yes, although It has maybe 2 averages of 5 on it , and some Roux speedsolves.
maybe 5 speedcubing videos overall.

 

[Vexatious]

I'm assuming the tutorial for beginners is going to be there

 

[Shiv3r]

I'm assuming the tutorial for beginners is going to be there

mine or teodius's.
also, herre's JTWong's buy-in to the idea:
Identify the D-Layer Edge Orientations.
Identify the U-Layer Edge Orientations.
If it comes to 4+, bring 4 of them to the F-Layer and do an 'F' Move.

E-Slice Edges are more difficult.
You could tell a beginner to bring each E-Slice Edge to their respective layers and see if the color matches.

 

[JTWong71]

You can teach them to bring the D-Layer edges to their respective layers to check how many bad edges there are.
Do the same with the yellow edges.

E-Slice Edges are explained above.

 

[Teoidus]

Yeah, I think some clever way of breaking down EO into multiple substeps is definitely the way to go.
Much simpler than my initial idea, and makes more sense

I could make a tutorial, but don't h ave too much time to do so

 

[JTWong71]

Yeah, I think some clever way of breaking down EO into multiple substeps is definitely the way to go.
Much simpler than my initial idea, and makes more sense

I could make a tutorial, but don't h ave too much time to do so

I would want to make a tutorial, but I'm not allowed to make any videos.

 

[Shiv3r]

I could but I don't have a decent camera rig,(digital point-and shoot sitting on the box it came in)