The New Method / Substep / Concept Idea Thread

[shadowslice e]

Do you mean, with the example, D'>>L>>insertMispair>>L'>>D2>>doAnotherCase? Yes or no, thanks. If no, of course you would add another solution, which will help.

https://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/Keyhole this is the idea of keyhole: basically, move the corner slot, insert the corner, move back the corner slot

 

[Praetorian]

sometimes if it's possible without too much effort in the scramble i'll simultaneously orient my F2L edges whilst solving my cross, has only happened to me once or twice before though

 

[zyxantjcae654]

sometimes if it's possible without too much effort in the scramble i'll simultaneously orient my F2L edges whilst solving my cross, has only happened to me once or twice before though

I will soon try influencing edges during a Fridrich cross to minimize bad edges after then correct the remaining. A cross then EO rather than EO then cross. I never thought of that. CFOP user!

 

[Praetorian]

I will soon try influencing edges during a Fridrich cross to minimize bad edges after then correct the remaining. A cross then EO rather than EO then cross. I never thought of that. CFOP user!

it's definitely only a luck/situational thing, you shouldn't go out of your way to orient all 4 of them for every single solve, take movecount and ..a finished cross into consideration lol

it's only if your cross solution orients your edges at the same time

 

[lazycuber1216]

Lol I know this guy, dude just stop complicating things, you're just embarassing yourself lol
bjbjbj

 

[shadowslice e]

New? 3x3x3

1) build a 1x2x3 on the cube anywhere you like but it will be rotated to the D-face so it sits on the LD
2) build a 2x2x2 on the ULF or ULB using Uw and R moves
2a) place one e-slice edge either in LF or LB
. 2b) build the "cap" on top of the 1x2x2 formed in the last substep to finish the 2x2x2
3) keeping orientation, place the 2nd e-slice edge on the left
4) rotate the F2L-1 to the base.
5) orient the remaining edges as in heise/ tripod
6) WV
7) PLL

Pros:
1) easy block building
2) ergonomic move sets
3) efficient
4) few rotations
5) good for use in combination with Meyer/yau/shadowslice-Meyer/OBTM due to the block formed during the reduction stage

Cons:
1) ... Block building? (if you don't like that)
2) built in rotations could be disorientating but shouldn't be too bad.

I mainly created this method for use in conjunction with the reduction methods although it is quite efficient and easy for the block building.

So, thoughts?

Ok, I've decided this method while being ok for 2H 3x3x3 solving, would be even better for the following disciplines: FMC (block building for a lower movecount+easy lookahead to F2L-1), Big block reduction 3x3x3 (especially for Yau, Meyer, Shadowslice-Meyer and OBLBL) and OH (mostly 2-gen throughout the whole solve and few rotations)

 

[shadowslice e]

New? 3x3x3

1) build a 1x2x3 on the cube anywhere you like but it will be rotated to the D-face so it sits on the LD
2) build a 2x2x2 on the ULF or ULB using Uw and R moves
2a) place one e-slice edge either in LF or LB
. 2b) build the "cap" on top of the 1x2x2 formed in the last substep to finish the 2x2x2
3) keeping orientation, place the 2nd e-slice edge on the left
4) rotate the F2L-1 to the base.
5) orient the remaining edges as in heise/ tripod
6) WV
7) PLL

Pros:
1) easy block building
2) ergonomic move sets
3) efficient
4) few rotations
5) good for use in combination with Meyer/yau/shadowslice-Meyer/OBTM due to the block formed during the reduction stage

Cons:
1) ... Block building? (if you don't like that)
2) built in rotations could be disorientating but shouldn't be too bad.

I mainly created this method for use in conjunction with the reduction methods although it is quite efficient and easy for the block building.

So, thoughts?

Improvements for 2H: combine steps 3-5 as 3) rotate after 2x2x2 is finished
4) WV the corners
5) L5E(ish)- orient the remaining edges and solve the D-face piece
6) PLL

OR

(more efficient but more algs that aren't as nice)

3) CLS
4) L5E
(both straight)

Movecount (in STM, for SQTM add ~3 moves) <45- (easily)
<40-(better at block building still x2,y CN)
5? (definately possible to average this in my opinion)

Breakdown in STM (mine): roux block:8
2x2x2: 10
pair+insert: <6- sometimes I did the pair during the F2L-2 (missing edge and ce pair) where it averaged about 4-5
CMLL:10
L5E (L5EOP which is slightly less efficient): <10
Total: <44 (I didn't even use CLS when I was doing the solves and it is speed rather than movecount optimised)

Pros: ergonomic (especially compared to other methods that have a similarly low movecount (except maybe Snyder2))
Low movecount
Good lookahead
no abstract concepts like Eoline/edge

Cons: lots of algs for CLS (but the way I do it is still quite efficient with CMLL)
rotation could be disorientating but you could just do Rw&R moves rather than Uw &U which would make this a rotationless method

Could be quite a fast method in my opinion unless you don't do block building.

 

[frogmanson]

Okay. Just give me a site(no sarcasms), maybe, or threads here about the do's and don't's in cubing, some hard cases, etc. I do not quite understand. Because the posts I am receiving is not related about the general help I want, like on the title. I thought a legal thread would die out if let unanswered. But I still insist some miscellaneous subsets of ZZF2L with cross as base. Treat these as subsets of Fridrich F2L among oriented edges. Okay, not for speed sake but for love. I won't argue that it is the fastest. Oh, about the proposing. Don't worry, I will not name an assumably fastest method for myself. That's hassle. Actually, that was offending. I did not come here to brag. I have read before that EO can be used in various methods so I anticipated someone to know EO+CFOP. Yeah, I think at the link you have given. I would have named it JCAE method. Just kidding.

Just to keep reality in check, people are giving you good advice in theory, but the fastest ZZ method user in the world does in fact use EOcross. Case in point:

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...-32-average-of-12-with-ZZ-by-Hyeon-Kyo-Kyoung

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPmKPzO6bu4

 

[shadowslice e]

Just to keep reality in check, people are giving you good advice in theory, but the fastest ZZ method user in the world does in fact use EOcross. Case in point:

https://www.speedsolving.com/forum/...-32-average-of-12-with-ZZ-by-Hyeon-Kyo-Kyoung

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPmKPzO6bu4

Maybe... But his default method is CFOP so that's partially why.

I would still say to avoid EoCross. 3 cross pieces is fine but the fourth piece can still sometimes get in the way of efficient CE pairing

 

[shadowslice e]

Improvements for 2H: combine steps 3-5 as 3) rotate after 2x2x2 is finished
4) WV the corners
5) L5E(ish)- orient the remaining edges and solve the D-face piece
6) PLL

OR

(more efficient but more algs that aren't as nice)

3) CLS
4) L5E
(both straight)

Movecount (in STM, for SQTM add ~3 moves) <45- (easily)
<40-(better at block building still x2,y CN)
5? (definately possible to average this in my opinion)

Breakdown in STM (mine): roux block:8
2x2x2: 10
pair+insert: <6- sometimes I did the pair during the F2L-2 (missing edge and ce pair) where it averaged about 4-5
CMLL:10
L5E (L5EOP which is slightly less efficient): <10
Total: <44 (I didn't even use CLS when I was doing the solves and it is speed rather than movecount optimised)

Pros: ergonomic (especially compared to other methods that have a similarly low movecount (except maybe Snyder2))
Low movecount
Good lookahead
no abstract concepts like Eoline/edge

Cons: lots of algs for CLS (but the way I do it is still quite efficient with CMLL)
rotation could be disorientating but you could just do Rw&R moves rather than Uw &U which would make this a rotationless method

Could be quite a fast method in my opinion unless you don't do block building.

For big cubes if you combine this method with shadowslice-Meyer, you can get a 3x3x3 stage which can be 20 moves long

 

[shadowslice e]

Big cube Yau variant:

1) solve 2 opposite centres
2) solve 4 D-face dedges and place 2 in the d-face (correctly placed) and 2 in the U face so both have L-shapes (I would go with UL/UB, DL/DB)
3) centres (nicer than straight Yau as you have 2 working faces that can rotate freely although you may have to do some slice moves
4) place the remaining D-face edges
5) edge pairing
6) 3x3x3


Nothing revolutionary, just trying to make the centres easier and more free to do.

Thoughts?

 

[2180161]

Also, a crappy 3x3 method, simply a ZZ variant.


EOline

Left block

Right square in BR

Solve corners while preserving EO (Not sure on number of algs, or recognition)

OR insert FRD corner, COLL

L5E

Pros: Decent move count, Still RUL, RU after step 4

Cons: Algs, look-ahead into L5E isnt good, also bad Recog for L5E (I think)

bump.

 

[Berkmann18]

Big cube Yau variant:

1) solve 2 opposite centres
2) solve 4 D-face dedges and place 2 in the d-face (correctly placed) and 2 in the U face so both have L-shapes (I would go with UL/UB, DL/DB)
3) centres (nicer than straight Yau as you have 2 working faces that can rotate freely although you may have to do some slice moves
4) place the remaining D-face edges
5) edge pairing
6) 3x3x3


Nothing revolutionary, just trying to make the centres easier and more free to do.

Thoughts?

I already thought about doing something similar, more like only pairing two d/tr/quedges or having two on BL and DL and one in DR.

 

[supercavitation]

Big cube Yau variant:

1) solve 2 opposite centres
2) solve 4 D-face dedges and place 2 in the d-face (correctly placed) and 2 in the U face so both have L-shapes (I would go with UL/UB, DL/DB)
3) centres (nicer than straight Yau as you have 2 working faces that can rotate freely although you may have to do some slice moves
4) place the remaining D-face edges
5) edge pairing
6) 3x3x3


Nothing revolutionary, just trying to make the centres easier and more free to do.

Thoughts?

The only real problem I have with that is the pause between centers and edge pairing while you place the D face edges. Other than that, seems like a reasonable Yau variant, though I prefer standard Yau (tried a few solves, and that pause messed with my lookahead).

 

[shadowslice e]

bump.

This is pretty much exactly orient first Petrus except you combine the pair insert and the COLL (in CLS?)

The only real problem I have with that is the pause between centers and edge pairing while you place the D face edges. Other than that, seems like a reasonable Yau variant, though I prefer standard Yau (tried a few solves, and that pause messed with my lookahead).

Funny you should say that because it's almost the exact opposite for me as the pause for placing seems to allow me to find edges more easily.

 

[shadowslice e]

MCELL (3x3x3 method)

Improvements for 2H: combine steps 3-5 as 3) rotate after 2x2x2 is finished
4) WV the corners
5) L5E(ish)- orient the remaining edges and solve the D-face piece
6) PLL

OR

(more efficient but more algs that aren't as nice)

3) TCLL
4) L5E
(both straight)

Movecount (in STM, for SQTM add ~3 moves) <45- (easily)
<40-(better at block building still x2,y CN)
5? (definately possible to average this in my opinion)

Breakdown in STM (mine): roux block:8
2x2x2: 10
pair+insert: <6- sometimes I did the pair during the F2L-2 (missing edge and ce pair) where it averaged about 4-5
CMLL:10
L5E (L5EOP which is slightly less efficient): <10
Total: <44 (I didn't even use TCLL when I was doing the solves and it is speed rather than movecount optimised)

Pros: ergonomic (especially compared to other methods that have a similarly low movecount (except maybe Snyder2))
Low movecount
Good lookahead
no abstract concepts like Eoline/edge

Cons: lots of algs for CLS (but the way I do it is still quite efficient with CMLL)
rotation could be disorientating but you could just do Rw&R moves rather than Uw &U which would make this a rotationless method

Could be quite a fast method in my opinion unless you don't do block building.

Further movecount reducing stuff (but not necessarily better for speed):

1) form 3 2x2x1 blocks with one colour face in common (like heise but without the centre-edge-centre 1x2x2 heise block) (well, I can always do it in <16 STM but someone who is really good at heise blocks can probably do it in <12 STM, maybe average ~10 STM)
2) move to form an F2L-2 (+orient remaining edges) (~5 STM)
3) TCLL (preserving orientation) (~9 HTM)
4) L5E (just permuting) (6.7 STM)

Total: <~30? (STM as well as about the same in SQTM, perhaps even lower in ATM or AQTM) (apparently about the same movecount as Snyder3 but is actually published and the algs are actually known)

Only issue is that the 2 slots (for the edge and the corner) are not always adjacent so it's probably the problem when it comes to speedsolving.

Also, this uses a new(?) LL/double LS variant: L5E, L5C (or TCLL)

Pros
Very low movecount
3-look method
1LLL (if we use 5 cycles for corners)
Still about the same number of algs as CFOP and far less than (for example) ZBLL
Few rotations (potentially none if done correctly)
Can be transfered directly to 2x2x2 where it averages <14 moves (not even CN) and is a 2-look method (although you could lookahead like in actual TCLL)

Cons:
Very heavy reliance on inspection
Orienting edges while doing the blocks could be difficult for a beginner
Still a fair few algs to learn (~84 for TCLL, do the L5E intuitively

Summary: I don't really know what to say here: this could be fast but it would require very good block building (but no worse than that of roux or petrus), the LS/LS style of LL can easily be combined with many other methods as well (notably ZZ where it could give a 1LLL)

Variations with easier F2L-2
CFOP: partial cross (~4 moves), 3 pairs- you could use a ZZ style approach (12 moves), orient all edges (6 moves), TCLL (9 moves), L5E (7 moves)- ~38 moves
ZZ: Eo (6 optimal, 7 realistic) FB+1 pair+1 edges (13 moves), TCLL (9 moves), L5E (7 moves)- ~35 moves
Petrus: 2x2x3 (10 moves), pair (3 moves), orient edges+place the last 2nd layer edge (7 moves), TCLL (9 moves), L5E (7 moves): 35 moves

Average: 35.666... Moves

For future reference I'll probably call this method MCELL (Missing Corner Edge Last Layer solution)

What does everyone else think?

 

[mDiPalma]

L5E (just permuting) (<6 STM)

u sûr bro?

Spoiler

pretty sure it's ~6.7 moves plus 2*.75 moves AUF

the sole intention of this spoiler is to evade another infraction

 

[shadowslice e]

u sûr bro?

Spoiler

pretty sure it's ~6.7 moves plus 2*.75 moves AUF

the sole intention of this spoiler is to evade another infraction

Meh, I was estimating. Still a pretty low movecount. I'll amend the original post.

Stats I know are correct (as I haven't got full TCLL for 3x3x3)
1) Heise blocks(ish):12
2) orient edges+ place blocks: 6
3) TCLL: 12
4) L5E: 6.7

So definately around (and probably less than): 36.7

 

[IAmAPerson]

Introducing a new extremely fun yet very slow method:

The ZZ+CFOP+Roux Hybrid Method!

I was playing around with this on twisttheweb earlier today. I average high 20s with this method.

Steps:
Partial EOCross (Only DL and DR are solved, but DF and DB must be U layer or D layer edges)
<R,U,L> 3-gen CFOP-style F2L
COLL
LSE

Example Solve:
U2 L B' L R2 U F' R2 U2 R D L R2 D F' L U B D2 U2 R' D U2 B2 D'

Partial EOCross: L' U2 R2 B' R2 U L2 D2
F2L Slot 1: U L2' U L U' L2
F2L Slot 2: R' U' R U2' R' U' R
F2L Slot 3: U R U R' U' R U R' U L U L'
F2L Slot 4: U R U2' R' U R U' R'
COLL: U F R2 U' R U' R U' R' U2 R' U R2 F'
LSE: M' U2' M' U2' M2' U' M2' U M' U2' M U M2'

alg.cubing.net solve ftw

This method is just fun to solve with. I don't expect any serious times with it, but holy crap is it just fun to mess around with.

 

[2180161]

Introducing a new extremely fun yet very slow method:

The ZZ+CFOP+Roux Hybrid Method!

I was playing around with this on twisttheweb earlier today. I average high 20s with this method.

Steps:
Partial EOCross (Only DL and DR are solved, but DF and DB must be U layer or D layer edges)
<R,U,L> 3-gen CFOP-style F2L
COLL
LSE

Example Solve:
U2 L B' L R2 U F' R2 U2 R D L R2 D F' L U B D2 U2 R' D U2 B2 D'

Partial EOCross: L' U2 R2 B' R2 U L2 D2
F2L Slot 1: U L2' U L U' L2
F2L Slot 2: R' U' R U2' R' U' R
F2L Slot 3: U R U R' U' R U R' U L U L'
F2L Slot 4: U R U2' R' U R U' R'
COLL: U F R2 U' R U' R U' R' U2 R' U R2 F'
LSE: M' U2' M' U2' M2' U' M2' U M' U2' M U M2'

alg.cubing.net solve ftw

This method is just fun to solve with. I don't expect any serious times with it, but holy crap is it just fun to mess around with.

ughh. CANCER!