The New Method / Substep / Concept Idea Thread

[Thom S.]

I'm sorry but I'm not sure what 2 look ell or cfce is. Please elaborate on that.

Explanation first, then opinion:
What you mean is orienting and permuting the Corners every time which is called CLL(for 3x3 in this case)

ELL is Edges of the Last Layer. You say to first orient the edges in three OLLs/2 and then Permute them with some Perms. ELL does that in one step and has 29 Algorithms although it is generally avoided because recognition for it is objectively not as great as other sets.

If I can follow you completely, this is what your method does
Cross
F2L
CLL
ELL/two look
Then, you "invented" the CFCE Method

 

[Micah Wingfield]

oh. I guess I "invented" a new method. haha but thanks for letting me know about that so I don't claim to be the creator to anyone.

 

[Hazel]

oh. I guess I "invented" a new method. haha but thanks for letting me know about that so I don't claim to be the creator to anyone.

It's a common mistake, I've made it many times myself! I thought I made up a promising new 3x3 method over the winter holidays in 2017 but it turns out it was identicle to one called Hexagonal Francisco. Hopefully one day I'll come up with a method that's both viable and original

 

[shadowslice e]

It's a common mistake, I've made it many times myself! I thought I made up a promising new 3x3 method over the winter holidays in 2017 but it turns out it was identicle to one called Hexagonal Francisco. Hopefully one day I'll come up with a method that's both viable and original

Spoiler

Hexagonal fransisco is also a victim of not being original

 

[1001010101001]

Is this 2x2 method taken
1. Sort white/yellow
2. Sort green/blue
3. Orient all

 

[Hazel]

Triangular Francisco varient?

1) Build the Triangle + E-Layer. Make sure that at least one unsolved D-layer edge is oriented correctly.
2) Insert a D-layer edge (into the disoriented slot if there is one) while solving EO
3) CLS
4) Insert the last edge while solving CP (6 algs, one of which is M' U2 M)
5) EPLL

Steps 2 and 3 can be done in any order, and there's a 1 in 12 chance of a LL skip! I tried a few of the step 4 algs, and they aren't too long or bad, even the diagnal swap one. CLS has a lot of cases though, but they're all really fast and are mostly just taking the E-layer edge out and inserting the F2L pair a certain way.

 

[Neuro]

Tell me if this is crazy but I think I've realized something great

If we use BTR-esque setup, we can reduce ZZ-C's OLS set from 501 possibly down to 128 or less.

Basically if we set the cube up so that a U layer edge and an oriented corner are placed BTR style, you have 8 OCLL cases. From there, the edge can be in 1 of 4 places and the corner in 1 of 4 cases. 8*4*4=128

By recognizing the OCLL and the location of the F2L pair pieces, you can perform 1 alg that will orient all corners properly and solve the pair in such a way that when you fix F2L your OLL is completely done!

Here are some examples for those who are confused. It's a hard concept to write but it's actually quite simple once you see it.

EXAMPLE 1
EXAMPLE 2
EXAMPLE 3

This can be made even more crazy if you learn it so that you only need a U layer edge for BTR setup (corner doesn't matter.) Even here, you still have less algs than with normal ZZ-C, giving 128*4=384

This can also be applied to ZZCT, with any corner and a U layer edge being placed in back and using 1 of 32 algs for TSLE. If the corner orientation doesn't matter, 32*3=96 in comparison to the normal 104 (so maybe not entirely worth it to use twisted corner)

EDIT: Typed in the wrong number. 128*3=384, not 128*4. Also these stats have some variance due to symmetry. May be more or less than those given here.

 

[Hazel]

LSLL method idea:
1) Build a 2x2 square on U - doesn't have to be permuted, should only take a few moves
2) Insert last F2L edge while solving EO and preserving the square
3) CLS, but with less cases
4) PLL

1/72 chance of LL skip, that's pretty nice.

 

[Duncan Bannon]

LSLL method idea:
1) Build a 2x2 square on U - doesn't have to be permuted, should only take a few moves
2) Insert last F2L edge while solving EO and preserving the square
3) CLS, but with less cases
4) PLL

1/72 chance of LL skip, that's pretty nice.

That sounds pretty cool! Can you do a few example solves?

 

[Hazel]

That sounds pretty cool! Can you do a few example solves?

Thanks, and sure!

L F' L2 U2 D2 R B' R' U2 D2 L U2 F

F' U F // Square
U F' U' F // EO+FR
y' R' U' R U R' U2 R U' R' U R // CLS
R perm

L' B2 D' R2 D B2 L U2 F' U' L' U L U F

R U' R' U2 F' U2 F // Square
F R' F' R // EO+FR - at this point you could just do TTLL, but I'm going to continue as usual for this LSLL method.
U' R2 U R2 U R2 U2 R2 // CLS
G perm

U2 R U2 R2 F2 R2 U R2 F2 R U' L F2 L' U

U F' U F // Square
U2 F' U F // EO+FR
y M' U2 r' U' F2 U F2 R // CLS
R perm

New note: There are 12 cases for step 2, one being a skip. I'll make a spreadsheet of all the cases with the best "algs" to solve each one when I have time, unitl then here are all the algs:

Spoiler

- R’ F R F’
- U’ R U R’
- *skip*
- R U’ R’
- F R’ F’ R
- F’ U F
- U F’ U’ F
- R U’ R’ U F’ U F
- F’ U F U’ R U’ R’
- R U’ R’ U2 F’ U’ F
- F U R U’ R’ F’
- R’ F R F2 U F

And another note, this method makes it so there's only 72 CLS cases (66 if you exclude a skip and OLL cases!) as opposed to 105 (99 minus skip/OLL). Not to mention that the cases my method avoids are the ones that have the hardest recognition!
As a side note, what if instead of 12 simple EO+edge cases, we solved CP as well and during CLS we only used 2-gen algs? That would make 72 EOCP algs, but a 1/12 chance of a LL skip instead of 1/72, hm...

 

[Neuro]

In relation to my last post, what if we were to place the F2L edge in place of the U layer edge during BTR and then only recognize the location of the corner on the OCLL? Should have even less cases and easier setup. Makes it so that corner orientation during BTR is practically unnecessary and all that's needed is the edge in position. 6 setup moves max (corner placed w/edge so that with R they're both in back) from true ZZ F2L-1 (average is 2 moves) and influencing during the solve is easy.

Just 24*4=96 cases for full ZZ-C!

 

[Aaron Stettner]

Hey everybody,
I've been working on a new 5x5 method called Raymond method. It's a block building reduction method that has three stages,
1. First block (3x4x5)
2. Right Group (Solve remaining centers and edges while inserting final two cross edges)
3. 3x3 stage (solve with petrus for 2-gen)

The method is not fully complete but I will put out more data when it is completely finished. If you want to help collaborate with me on this method you can talk to me and I'll give you more information. I have high hopes or this method, and with what I've been able to figure cubers should be able to get sub-1 with Raymond. More information will be coming out soon.

 

[Hazel]

I've created a doc for my LSLL method, here. In it I also have a link to the EO+Edge algorithms

 

[Sue Doenim]

What does right group mean?

 

[Aaron Stettner]

Right group is probably not the right name for it, and I haven't had time to name it something better. Basically, after completing the first step, which creates a 3x4x5 block you solve the rest of the edges and centers

 

[WombatWarrior17]

What's the average move count?

 

[Aaron Stettner]

I have not found the average move count yet, and don't know if I ever will. Right now I really need people to help me find the most efficient way to build a 3x4x5 block on 5x5, and then from there people will just need to practice the method to get fast. Like Yau5, the 3x3 stage is extremely fast because you already have two of your f2l pairs inserted, and with Raymond not only do you have to f2l pairs inserted but you can solve the rest of 3x3 stage 2-gen.

 

[xyzzy]

Have you tried OBLBL?

(Also, it seems like your method involves some sort of EOpairing (since it finishes reduction with EO done), which is almost guaranteed to suck. Maybe you can find a way to get around its inherent suckiness, and that would be really cool, but I don't consider this likely.)

 

[Aaron Stettner]

Have you tried OBLBL?

OBLBL is similar to Raymond, however there are some big differences. I am still working on the EO and I have something in mind, and it would add very little time to the solve to do it, and then reduce more time due to its benefits.

 

[Gx Cuber]

Here is G2L an F2L method that I made that is supposed to be easy. It avoids making a cross and instead, it starts intuitively. I have to give credit to QiYI as the beginner's method it has contains algorithms (that I did not make) in my method. Here is the link (With Pictures :3) https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sC535JmRwaJNbM-cUUY3kuvOdyGguQGdEiET2VZ4aRM/edit?usp=sharing