If the hardware sucks and no big manufacturers are willing to invest in clock its because there is no demand...so it kinda is cubers fault. :rolleyes:
What cubes should be removed from the WCA?
If the hardware sucks and no big manufacturers are willing to invest in clock its because there is no demand...so it kinda is cubers fault. :rolleyes:
CodingCuber
Veteran
Wow I was just giving my opinion. I doubt that it will actually be added. You guys just keep debating. I don’t want to be involved lol.
alexiscubing
Veteran
I think kilominx is a more wca worthy event than 15 puzzle
Such as?
ProStar
Legend
Example?
Sub1Hour
Veteran
It has very few attributes that make it a "Twisty Puzzle" and is not as unique as clock, making it a very boring event. Not to mention how some 15 puzzles would give an unfair advantage, causing a multitude of hard to interpret regulations.
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As far as I know, there were two primary reasons why Magic was removed. The first, and by far most important, was that it was hard to judge. The requirements on the finishing state were challenging, plus a solve was far too short and so judging tended to degenerate to judging the validity of starting the timer, grabbing the puzzle before solving, releasing the puzzle after solving, and stopping the timer. The second was that, as practiced at the time, Magic was not a scrambled puzzle - it was simply going from one specific state to another specific state.
15 Puzzle has neither of these problems.
D
Deleted member 51471
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I think that a SCRAMBLED magic or master magic would work well.
ProStar
Legend
Do you know why Magic was removed? Also I like how you're for non-standard and unique twisty puzzles if it's clock or exactly like clock(which isn't unique). Magic was removed, as Mike said, because of hard judging and that it wasn't scrambled. 15 Puzzle can be judged fine and is scrambled. And how would some 15 puzzles give a greater advantage over someone having a Rubik's brand instead of a Gan?
I think it'd definitely be cool, and I know that many people have said it's a great idea but hard to actually execute
brododragon
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There's only 32 possible permutations on a magic, so you easily memorize all positions optimal algorithm.
Micah Morrison
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honestly I haven't thought much about 15 puzzle being a WCA event but I think it would be really cool and I would definitely compete. Only problem is that it's called the World Cube Association and every current puzzle is three dimensional but 15 puzzle is basically 2 dimensional.
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Where did you get this number? I was not aware anyone had enumerated the possible permutations of a Magic. And the Magic is a three-dimensional puzzle, and I'm quite sure I've seen many more than 32 permutations on my Magics, at least when counting all 3-dimensional shapes. It is possible there might only be 32 "more than trivially different" permutations of a Magic, but if so, I would sure be quite interested in seeing them enumerated.
ProStar
Legend
Clock? And if we're talking about it being the World Cube Association, then say goodbye to Megaminx and Pyraminx as well
brododragon
Veteran
Whoops I was just counting 2x4 rectangles. There are 1,351 possible shapes, not individual tiles, so that disproves my point. 1,351 is still a very small number, despite it only being shapes.
Sub1Hour
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He is not referring to the actual cube shape, the reference is to the Dimensions of the puzzles. And yes, the clock is 3 dimensional even though you can only see 2 dimensions at a time. If it were 2 dimensional then the faces would not interact with each other.
ProStar
Legend
So, we're arguing over the name, but instead of saying it should be cubes only, you're saying it should be 3d puzzles only? That makes sense
Micah Morrison
Veteran
yeah that's what I was trying to say. While I am for clock being removed from the WCA, at least it has a front and back. Again, I'm all for 15 puzzle being in the WCA, but it wouldn't be very spectator friendly and it's not really a cube like puzzle
brododragon
Veteran
More Magic stuff that's slightly off-topic: If there are 32 possible 2x4's and 1,351 possible shapes, couldn't you just multiply 32 x 1,351 = 43,232?
Sub1Hour
Veteran
Well if you gonna make a big deal out of it than yes. Things like LoopOver (Go check that out if you haven't its a really cool program/puzzle) and 15 puzzles are fun but they do not really fit into the current day WCA. Actual Twisty Puzzles is what people come to the WCA for, not standard things like 15 puzzle. And if you want, let's call it WTPA, not as catchy but more accurate. Not that the name matters or anything but we should focus on adding events that appeal to cubers, not just puzzle solvers. I don't know if they have their own competition organization or if they even care about competing. The WCA was made for Cubers, not for general puzzle enthusiasts
Sub1Hour
Veteran
I'm not that big of a magic expert, but the way the magic is strung prevents certain combinations, almost like bandaging. So no that would not be possible. But if you look at the possible permutations of the tiles while its in the standard 2x4 shape that could be used to find the total number of possible permutations.
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