The New Method / Substep / Concept Idea Thread

[mDiPalma]

Hi all!

So I have been reading into zz and fooling around with it. Being the total plebian that I am I found the 12 edges too hard to keep track of. Therefore I totally disregarded the 4 yellow edges in the EOline step, creating essentially an easier version of EOline at the expense of the yellow cross.

Has this intermediate step between learning full EOline already been discussed at length?

Yeah it's cool, as long as you're not *gasp* placing the left and right cross pieces after you finish your eoline.

 

[stoic]

Hi all!

So I have been reading into zz and fooling around with it. Being the total plebian that I am I found the 12 edges too hard to keep track of. Therefore I totally disregarded the 4 yellow edges in the EOline step, creating essentially an easier version of EOline at the expense of the yellow cross.

Has this intermediate step between learning full EOline already been discussed at length?

I might try that, as I enjoy ZZ but suck at EO.

 

[TheNextFeliks]

Hi all!

So I have been reading into zz and fooling around with it. Being the total plebian that I am I found the 12 edges too hard to keep track of. Therefore I totally disregarded the 4 yellow edges in the EOline step, creating essentially an easier version of EOline at the expense of the yellow cross.

Has this intermediate step between learning full EOline already been discussed at length?

Don't do it. Just practice eoline. Not too hard after some practice.

 

[elrog]

Wouldn't recognition for these edges be awful?

It could be recognized from looking at the left, front and right sides if you don't remember what edge was where after F2L. If you just remember where one edge is while doing F2L (preferably and earlier one), you should be able to use just the front and right sides most of the time.



For doing EO, you only need to remember where the bad edges are. It is not all 12 of them very often. I normally recognize EO by first looking at the D layer, then the E layer, and lastly, the U layer. I make sure I can remember where each edge is before I move on to memorizing the next layer.

 

[Suratha]

OLLL-by orienting last layer corners

Can we orient the last layer corners while inserting the last F2L pair and solve the last layer in one look?..
Because in ZBLL,there are seven orientation cases and PLL..but if we orient the corners,then there will be only three orientation cases and PLL..Can anyone come up with an idea for this?

 

[Username]

No.

This doesn't need a thread. There is a new substep/method/idea thread already.

If we orient corners, but not edges we don't get ZBLL...

Also the last step would be OLLCP with the corners oriented

 

[Kirjava]

but if we orient the corners,then there will be only three orientation cases and PLL

there will be 8 orientation cases

 

[Suratha]

There must be only three orientation cases for edges(4 edges flip,2 adjacent edges flip,2 opposite edges flip)..

 

[tx789]

There winter and summer variation which is similar to this

 

[tseitsei]

There must be only three orientation cases for edges(4 edges flip,2 adjacent edges flip,2 opposite edges flip)..

You are wrong. Because:

1. case is all edges oriented
2. case is all edges unoriented
3. and 4. case is 2 opposite edges unoriented. This has two possible cases because you can have either front and back edges flipped or left and right edges flipped
cases 5.-8. will be 2 adjacent edge flip with same logic. You van have (front left) or (left back) or (back right) or (right front) edges flipped.

And these are all different cases because you can't AUF both PLL and flipped edges at the same time... Unlike in OLL where you only have 4 edge orientation cases because you can AUF and do PLL later...

 

[elrog]

You do recognize CLL by the orientation case of the top/bottom colors and the left/right colors, correct? Could you use the same recognition system for doing the last 5 corners at once?

What I'm thinking about is a better way to recognize corner permutation. If you know the CLL case, you know the permutation case. You wouldn't really need to know algorithms for every last 5 corners case, just the permutations. You could possibly recognize CP without placing all 4 bottom corners.

Thoughts?

 

[AHornbaker]

Here's an idea I've fooled around with a little, and I'm not sure what kind of potential it has if any.

1. Solve one side with opposite colors (ie. red/orange) so all pieces are "oriented" on bottom
2. Use U, u, E, and R moves to orient all edges in E layer and U face
3. While orienting last two edges, use an alg to orient all corners on the U face (at this point all edges and corners are oriented)
4. F2L like ZZ using R, L, and U2 moves to preserve corner orientation (may lose moves here)
5. PLL

The first steps (1 and 2) are super easy and fast, step three potentially has a lot of algs, step four may lose efficiency in U2 moves, and PLL cases aren't reduced at all. After thinking about this some more, it's just ZZ with corner orientation before F2L, so ZZ is almost definitely more efficient and fast. Just thought I should get the idea out there.

 

[Username]

4. F2L like ZZ using R, L, and U2 moves to preserve corner orientation (may lose moves here)

Preserving Corner orientation isn't that easy, also having all corners correctly oriented would make F2L terrible imo

 

[aceofspades98]

Here's an idea I've fooled around with a little, and I'm not sure what kind of potential it has if any.

1. Solve one side with opposite colors (ie. red/orange) so all pieces are "oriented" on bottom
2. Use U, u, E, and R moves to orient all edges in E layer and U face
3. While orienting last two edges, use an alg to orient all corners on the U face (at this point all edges and corners are oriented)
4. F2L like ZZ using R, L, and U2 moves to preserve corner orientation (may lose moves here)
5. PLL

The first steps (1 and 2) are super easy and fast, step three potentially has a lot of algs, step four may lose efficiency in U2 moves, and PLL cases aren't reduced at all. After thinking about this some more, it's just ZZ with corner orientation before F2L, so ZZ is almost definitely more efficient and fast. Just thought I should get the idea out there.

Or you could just use ZZ.

 

[blade740]

Here's an idea I've fooled around with a little, and I'm not sure what kind of potential it has if any.

1. Solve one side with opposite colors (ie. red/orange) so all pieces are "oriented" on bottom
2. Use U, u, E, and R moves to orient all edges in E layer and U face
3. While orienting last two edges, use an alg to orient all corners on the U face (at this point all edges and corners are oriented)
4. F2L like ZZ using R, L, and U2 moves to preserve corner orientation (may lose moves here)
5. PLL

The first steps (1 and 2) are super easy and fast, step three potentially has a lot of algs, step four may lose efficiency in U2 moves, and PLL cases aren't reduced at all. After thinking about this some more, it's just ZZ with corner orientation before F2L, so ZZ is almost definitely more efficient and fast. Just thought I should get the idea out there.

3x3 Guimond?

 

[TheNextFeliks]

Weird approach.

1. Solve 4 f2l pairs (pcms style)
2. Place the 4 D-edges
3. OLL/PLL or CLL/ELL

CLL has a slight advantage because you can recognize the case while placing d-edges. However oll/pll can also be done.

Edit: one other approach I thought of.

Place 3 d-edges
L5EOP
COLL/EPLL

However the other two seem faster.

 

[elrog]

Here's an idea I've fooled around with a little, and I'm not sure what kind of potential it has if any.

1. Solve one side with opposite colors (ie. red/orange) so all pieces are "oriented" on bottom
2. Use U, u, E, and R moves to orient all edges in E layer and U face
3. While orienting last two edges, use an alg to orient all corners on the U face (at this point all edges and corners are oriented)
4. F2L like ZZ using R, L, and U2 moves to preserve corner orientation (may lose moves here)

5. PLL

The first steps (1 and 2) are super easy and fast, step three potentially has a lot of algs, step four may lose efficiency in U2 moves, and PLL cases aren't reduced at all. After thinking about this some more, it's just ZZ with corner orientation before F2L, so ZZ is almost definitely more efficient and fast. Just thought I should get the idea out there.

Using R L and U2 doesn't preserve corner orientation to the top/bottom colors, just the left/right ones. If you had corners oriented to the left right sides, building that first layer becomes a little more tricky and you can't finish the solve with PLL. Why not orient corners to the top/bottom faces and preserve orientation by doing R2 F2 L2 B2 U and D moves like in Orient Frist. Doing this you could also finish with PLL.

 

[Username]

1. Cross with 2 opposite pieces swapped
2. F2L
3. OLL
4. Fix 2 cross edges and do PLL at the same time (or do "PLL Parity to force better cases)


The 2 cross edges could also be corrected during F2L to separate pieces and set up nice cases
Would this work?

 

[TheNextFeliks]

1. Cross with 2 opposite pieces swapped
2. F2L
3. OLL
4. Fix 2 cross edges and do PLL at the same time (or do "PLL Parity to force better cases)


The 2 cross edges could also be corrected during F2L to separate pieces and set up nice cases
Would this work?

Been thought of. Meep has a few algs iirc.

 

[uvafan]

1. Cross with 2 opposite pieces swapped
2. F2L
3. OLL
4. Fix 2 cross edges and do PLL at the same time (or do "PLL Parity to force better cases)


The 2 cross edges could also be corrected during F2L to separate pieces and set up nice cases
Would this work?

Involves too much thinking to get very fast at it. Just another slight variant of CFOP that's not nearly as good.

Ofc you could get like one second worse averages with it because of the added time from the M2 U2 M2, but I doubt you could ever get better with it.