emolover
Legend
What do you all get for parities?
For PLL my best is 1.74 and OLL my best is 3.12.
For PLL my best is 1.74 and OLL my best is 3.12.
[Help Thread] Big Cubes Discussion
yoshinator
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I've noticed that most fast 4x4 solvers do z2 or z' when they don't see any of the edges that they are looking for on the U-face (during edge pairing), and I'm curious as to the reasoning behind this. It seems that tracking (due to better idea of where the pieces are because of fixed u- and d-layers), lookahead (due to better tracking), and speed overall (due to less cube rotations) would all be better if you only did y and y'. If anyone has the reasoning behind this, I'd appreciate it if you could inform me on the matter.
Thanks,
Thanks,
JianhanC
Veteran
I guess it's because 32223 does not affect the unsolved edges being at the U or D layer, so that when the solver knows that the edge he's looking for is not on the U layer, it must be on the D layer. We M-slicers do Ls and Rs.
yoshinator
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Yes, but why not just pull the edge put of the bottom, versus doing a z2 and pulling it out of the top, or doing a z' and pulling it out of the right?
JianhanC
Veteran
You mean do something like R' D R? Because it's just way slower and harder to look at the bottom.
yoshinator
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Actually I can do them both at about the same speed, and looking at the bottom is not necessary of your tracking is good enough, and even if your first pair is in the bottom, you can do an x (or half of one), and just track until a other x is necessary (I generally do about 3 for each solve).
bobthegiraffemonkey
Veteran
I came across OBLBL a few weeks ago. It was fun, but there were a few things that I wasn't comfortable with (mostly because I suck probably, but whatever). So, I messed around with it a little and came up with my own bigcube method (no doubt something similar has been done before, it usually has when it comes to new methods). I think it's kinda fun, certainly more fun that I found reduction to be. Also, with not much practice I've already beaten my old PBs on 5x5-7x7 from when I used reduction, so I'm switching to this for everything above 4x4. I've got a couple of 5x5 vids on my Youtube channel from a slightly earlier version of the method before I finished playing with it, the qualty isn't the best but it's good enough. So here it is:
Hope someone finds this fun/useful
Matt
BOBSLBL (bobthegiraffemonkey’s optimised blockbuilding style layer by layer)
1. 2 opposite centres.
2. 2 edges and corner solved into a ‘2x2x1’ block in the bottom back of the L face.
3. Extend block by one layer at a time from left to right. Sort of. I realised that trying to quickly find the correct wing for each layer is hard, so I stopped bothering. Instead, start with a line of centres which belongs on either the D or B faces, and attach a wing with the right colours to it whichever way it matches (so eg. you might need a specific white/orange wing for DBl, but use either white/orange wing for now) So when I find a wing, I don’t waste time making sure it’s right, I just use it. Place this block so that the wing is at DB, but the centres are on the wrong face (and the wing is on the wrong side). If this places the block on the right side of the cube, then this is good as it belongs on the left side when solved (and it is better to work left to right). Make the other line of centres, match them up on the left slice and place them. If the first line ends up on the left, then we have the wrong wing. We leave it there for now and continue to the next slice. Do this for each layer until the middle, including the centre slice on odd cubes. We get to the first slice on the right now. If the corresponding left slice is solved, we solve this without difficulty, as we don’t need to worry about the other slice and we only have one wing to look for. It may usually be better here to place one line of centres on the wrong face, then create the other line and wing, then match the two and insert. If we have a partially solved left slice with the wing which has to go on the right-hand slice we are now working on, we now build the other line we need and use what we built earlier to solve the right slice. We now go back and solve the left slice, and again we only have one wing left to look for. It is a little more awkward since we have to use a slice rather than the wide turns we have the use of otherwise, but it’s not too bad. Continue until the pseudo 2x2x2 block is done.
4. Match up the remaining cross edges, utilising the freedom on the unsolved F and U centres (things like 2r U 2r’, 2r’ F2 2r2 U2’ 2r’). Store these until the centres are done, usually at RD and RB, although FL is also good.
5. Finish centres.
6. Complete the cross and solve 1 of the corners on the D face (I prefer BR as it avoids rotations later), try and place some matching edge pieces with it. Fill in the rest of these edges K4 style.
7. Finish edge pairing. Do this “Yau” style, I mainly slice from FL but I also do some hax like 2R U R U’ 2r’ and 2l R’ F R F’ R U’ R’ U 2l’ to work with other edges when I see the cases.
8. Finish last 2 slots and LL.
1. 2 opposite centres.
2. 2 edges and corner solved into a ‘2x2x1’ block in the bottom back of the L face.
3. Extend block by one layer at a time from left to right. Sort of. I realised that trying to quickly find the correct wing for each layer is hard, so I stopped bothering. Instead, start with a line of centres which belongs on either the D or B faces, and attach a wing with the right colours to it whichever way it matches (so eg. you might need a specific white/orange wing for DBl, but use either white/orange wing for now) So when I find a wing, I don’t waste time making sure it’s right, I just use it. Place this block so that the wing is at DB, but the centres are on the wrong face (and the wing is on the wrong side). If this places the block on the right side of the cube, then this is good as it belongs on the left side when solved (and it is better to work left to right). Make the other line of centres, match them up on the left slice and place them. If the first line ends up on the left, then we have the wrong wing. We leave it there for now and continue to the next slice. Do this for each layer until the middle, including the centre slice on odd cubes. We get to the first slice on the right now. If the corresponding left slice is solved, we solve this without difficulty, as we don’t need to worry about the other slice and we only have one wing to look for. It may usually be better here to place one line of centres on the wrong face, then create the other line and wing, then match the two and insert. If we have a partially solved left slice with the wing which has to go on the right-hand slice we are now working on, we now build the other line we need and use what we built earlier to solve the right slice. We now go back and solve the left slice, and again we only have one wing left to look for. It is a little more awkward since we have to use a slice rather than the wide turns we have the use of otherwise, but it’s not too bad. Continue until the pseudo 2x2x2 block is done.
4. Match up the remaining cross edges, utilising the freedom on the unsolved F and U centres (things like 2r U 2r’, 2r’ F2 2r2 U2’ 2r’). Store these until the centres are done, usually at RD and RB, although FL is also good.
5. Finish centres.
6. Complete the cross and solve 1 of the corners on the D face (I prefer BR as it avoids rotations later), try and place some matching edge pieces with it. Fill in the rest of these edges K4 style.
7. Finish edge pairing. Do this “Yau” style, I mainly slice from FL but I also do some hax like 2R U R U’ 2r’ and 2l R’ F R F’ R U’ R’ U 2l’ to work with other edges when I see the cases.
8. Finish last 2 slots and LL.
Hope someone finds this fun/useful
Matt
What do you mean, you think the acronym is a little contrived?
blakedacuber
Premium Member
I came across OBLBL a few weeks ago. It was fun, but there were a few things that I wasn't comfortable with (mostly because I suck probably, but whatever). So, I messed around with it a little and came up with my own bigcube method (no doubt something similar has been done before, it usually has when it comes to new methods). I think it's kinda fun, certainly more fun that I found reduction to be. Also, with not much practice I've already beaten my old PBs on 5x5-7x7 from when I used reduction, so I'm switching to this for everything above 4x4. I've got a couple of 5x5 vids on my Youtube channel from a slightly earlier version of the method before I finished playing with it, the qualty isn't the best but it's good enough. So here it is:
BOBSLBL (bobthegiraffemonkey’s optimised blockbuilding style layer by layer)
1. 2 opposite centres.
2. 2 edges and corner solved into a ‘2x2x1’ block in the bottom back of the L face.
3. Extend block by one layer at a time from left to right. Sort of. I realised that trying to quickly find the correct wing for each layer is hard, so I stopped bothering. Instead, start with a line of centres which belongs on either the D or B faces, and attach a wing with the right colours to it whichever way it matches (so eg. you might need a specific white/orange wing for DBl, but use either white/orange wing for now) So when I find a wing, I don’t waste time making sure it’s right, I just use it. Place this block so that the wing is at DB, but the centres are on the wrong face (and the wing is on the wrong side). If this places the block on the right side of the cube, then this is good as it belongs on the left side when solved (and it is better to work left to right). Make the other line of centres, match them up on the left slice and place them. If the first line ends up on the left, then we have the wrong wing. We leave it there for now and continue to the next slice. Do this for each layer until the middle, including the centre slice on odd cubes. We get to the first slice on the right now. If the corresponding left slice is solved, we solve this without difficulty, as we don’t need to worry about the other slice and we only have one wing to look for. It may usually be better here to place one line of centres on the wrong face, then create the other line and wing, then match the two and insert. If we have a partially solved left slice with the wing which has to go on the right-hand slice we are now working on, we now build the other line we need and use what we built earlier to solve the right slice. We now go back and solve the left slice, and again we only have one wing left to look for. It is a little more awkward since we have to use a slice rather than the wide turns we have the use of otherwise, but it’s not too bad. Continue until the pseudo 2x2x2 block is done.
4. Match up the remaining cross edges, utilising the freedom on the unsolved F and U centres (things like 2r U 2r’, 2r’ F2 2r2 U2’ 2r’). Store these until the centres are done, usually at RD and RB, although FL is also good.
5. Finish centres.
6. Complete the cross and solve 1 of the corners on the D face (I prefer BR as it avoids rotations later), try and place some matching edge pieces with it. Fill in the rest of these edges K4 style.
7. Finish edge pairing. Do this “Yau” style, I mainly slice from FL but I also do some hax like 2R U R U’ 2r’ and 2l R’ F R F’ R U’ R’ U 2l’ to work with other edges when I see the cases.
8. Finish last 2 slots and LL.
Hope someone finds this fun/useful
Matt
What do you mean, you think the acronym is a little contrived?
Basicly build a petrus corner block thing and then finish last 3 centers then extend and finish?
note: i didnt read the whole thing but i watched you POV demo vid on youtube
Jaycee
Veteran
5x5 OBLBL example solve
All notation is SiGN.
Scramble with White on U, Green on F (WCA orientation)
f d' F2 R2 u' B D2 l' u2 f' R' U' r' l d L' F R2 b' F2 r l2 D2 f' F2 l2 r' D2 L' B2 r b' D2 r' u' d2 B l' r2 R L2 F U' d R2 U' B2 b2 u R B2 R' L2 d2 B2 F2 R D F' u
y'
r D r2' l' u 3u' L' d D r' // Yellow center and 2x2 on white center
y' R u r U' r' F' 3u R u2 4u' r U2 r' // White center
z' x U2 3r2' D' // WB tredge
R U' F2 r2 F' M2' 4r' U // WG tredge
F2 r F' 3r' R F' // WO tredge
R' F R F' x U' D R U x2 // Rouxblock
U 3r U 4r U2 3r U' 2L' U' 3r U // First row of centers
U R' U' 4r U2 4r U' R' U 4r' // Second "layer"
U2' 3r' U' r R U 3r2 U' 3r' U r R U' 3r r U r' U' 3r // Third "layer"
U' r U r' U' r U2 r2 U' r R U R' U r2 U r U' r' U2 r y' x' // Fourth layer (Petrus block)
F E y L' U2 L y' E' // 2/3 of WR and RB tredges
R' F R E R U2 R' E' // 2/3 of YB and YG tredges, and complete YO tredge
U2 R' F R F' u y' R U R' y u' // Complete YB and YG tredges
U F' R' F' R F' u' U' R U R' u // Complete WR tredge and 2/3 of GR tredge
F2 u' y L' U2 L y' u // Complete GR tredge and 2/3 of YO tredge
L' U L F' r U2 r U2 F2 r F2 l' U2 l U2 r2' // Complete RB and YR tredges, reduction completed
R U' R' F R U2 R' y' // EO
U R2 U' R' U R U2 R' U' R // F2L-1
U R U2' R' U R U' R' // F2L
U F U R2' D' R U' R' D R2 F' R' U R // COLL
U2 R2 U R U R' U' R' U' R' U R' // EPLL
alg.garron
226 ETM
I only did this because I'm bored and crazy.
I think this might be the first 5x5 OBLBL example solve. Is it?
Are there any specific places where it looks like I need improvement?
~ J.C.
All notation is SiGN.
Scramble with White on U, Green on F (WCA orientation)
f d' F2 R2 u' B D2 l' u2 f' R' U' r' l d L' F R2 b' F2 r l2 D2 f' F2 l2 r' D2 L' B2 r b' D2 r' u' d2 B l' r2 R L2 F U' d R2 U' B2 b2 u R B2 R' L2 d2 B2 F2 R D F' u
y'
r D r2' l' u 3u' L' d D r' // Yellow center and 2x2 on white center
y' R u r U' r' F' 3u R u2 4u' r U2 r' // White center
z' x U2 3r2' D' // WB tredge
R U' F2 r2 F' M2' 4r' U // WG tredge
F2 r F' 3r' R F' // WO tredge
R' F R F' x U' D R U x2 // Rouxblock
U 3r U 4r U2 3r U' 2L' U' 3r U // First row of centers
U R' U' 4r U2 4r U' R' U 4r' // Second "layer"
U2' 3r' U' r R U 3r2 U' 3r' U r R U' 3r r U r' U' 3r // Third "layer"
U' r U r' U' r U2 r2 U' r R U R' U r2 U r U' r' U2 r y' x' // Fourth layer (Petrus block)
F E y L' U2 L y' E' // 2/3 of WR and RB tredges
R' F R E R U2 R' E' // 2/3 of YB and YG tredges, and complete YO tredge
U2 R' F R F' u y' R U R' y u' // Complete YB and YG tredges
U F' R' F' R F' u' U' R U R' u // Complete WR tredge and 2/3 of GR tredge
F2 u' y L' U2 L y' u // Complete GR tredge and 2/3 of YO tredge
L' U L F' r U2 r U2 F2 r F2 l' U2 l U2 r2' // Complete RB and YR tredges, reduction completed
R U' R' F R U2 R' y' // EO
U R2 U' R' U R U2 R' U' R // F2L-1
U R U2' R' U R U' R' // F2L
U F U R2' D' R U' R' D R2 F' R' U R // COLL
U2 R2 U R U R' U' R' U' R' U R' // EPLL
alg.garron
226 ETM
I only did this because I'm bored and crazy.
I think this might be the first 5x5 OBLBL example solve. Is it? Are there any specific places where it looks like I need improvement?
~ J.C.
emolover
Legend
Don't make me do one on 7x7!
bobthegiraffemonkey
Veteran
Close. I build 2 opposite centres at the start before doing the petrus block.
Jaycee
Veteran
Oh I dare you.
emolover
Legend
If anyone wants to do it with me the scramble is in the spoiler and I am scrambling white on top and green on front.
scramble: 2F' 2R' 3R' 3F 3R2 R' 2F R2 2F 3D2 3R' 2D' 2U U R B R L2 F' 3L2 2L2 B2 F' U 3L' 3U2 2R2 2F B 2B 2U 2F2 B U' 2F R 2F D' 3B 3D 2D' L2 2D2 3L' 2D' B' 3R2 3B 2D2 2B 3F U' 2B' 3R' 3U 2B 2L2 2R R L'
Yes it is short because I will mess up and have to rescramble it. Will be done by the end of the day because I have to play golf right now.
My solution
White center: U F 3R 2L2 z' m2 z U F' 3l F' 3l' 2R' x 3r U 3r' y' D m2 F' 2L' L' y' 3R' y x 2R F' 3R U 3R' 3L' x' 2U x' U2 2L' 2R2 2l2 y U 2l' U' 2l x' U 2R
Yellow center: z2 U' 2R' U 2R y U' 3L' U 3L z U m2 z' y' U' 3R U2 3R' z x2 2L' U' 2L F 2R U2 m' z' y' U2 3r U2 3r' z 2L' U' m U m' 3l' z' y' U' 3r U2 3r' z x2 U2 3l' U' 3r' U 3r y F' U 2R U' 2R' U 2R U 2R'
RW edge: y' U2 2l2 U' 4R' L2 U' 2R' U2 3r2 D
OW edge: 2R2 U2 6R' U2 3R2 L U' 2R' L D L
Finish Roux Block: 3R 6R2 2l R2 U 2R' U2 m2 U' 6R U R' U' R U2 D2 R U' R U R' U R' U2 F U' x2
Bottom Center: 6R 4R 2R U m2 U m U' m' U 2R2 U' 2l2 6R U 2R U' 2R' 3r U 3r2 U' 3r' U 3r U' 3l 6R' 3R' U' 3R F' 2R U' 2R2 6R U' 2R' U2 2R 6R' 4R' U 4R U 3R U' 3R' 3r F
Yellow center: z2 U' 2R' U 2R y U' 3L' U 3L z U m2 z' y' U' 3R U2 3R' z x2 2L' U' 2L F 2R U2 m' z' y' U2 3r U2 3r' z 2L' U' m U m' 3l' z' y' U' 3r U2 3r' z x2 U2 3l' U' 3r' U 3r y F' U 2R U' 2R' U 2R U 2R'
RW edge: y' U2 2l2 U' 4R' L2 U' 2R' U2 3r2 D
OW edge: 2R2 U2 6R' U2 3R2 L U' 2R' L D L
Finish Roux Block: 3R 6R2 2l R2 U 2R' U2 m2 U' 6R U R' U' R U2 D2 R U' R U R' U R' U2 F U' x2
Bottom Center: 6R 4R 2R U m2 U m U' m' U 2R2 U' 2l2 6R U 2R U' 2R' 3r U 3r2 U' 3r' U 3r U' 3l 6R' 3R' U' 3R F' 2R U' 2R2 6R U' 2R' U2 2R 6R' 4R' U 4R U 3R U' 3R' 3r F
Last edited:
Riley
Veteran
Few questions on 4x4:
1. My average step times, in reduction are 14 - 27 - 25. Without any parity, 3x3 is usually sub 18. My average is 1:08. What step should I improve on?
2. What are the the average break down times for a 1 minute and a 50 second solve?
1. My average step times, in reduction are 14 - 27 - 25. Without any parity, 3x3 is usually sub 18. My average is 1:08. What step should I improve on?
2. What are the the average break down times for a 1 minute and a 50 second solve?
ottozing
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what edge pairing method do you use?
Riley
Veteran
3-2-2-2-3
emolover
Legend
Here is part of my solution
but I messed up with in the last ten move and I don't want to deal with it until tomorrow.
Is this notation alg.garren compatible?
White center: U F 3R 2L2 z' m2 z U F' 3l F' 3l' 2R' x 3r U 3r' y' D m2 F' 2L' L' y' 3R' y x 2R F' 3R U 3R' 3L' x' 2U x' U2 2L' 2R2 2l2 y U 2l' U' 2l x' U 2R
Yellow center: z2 U' 2R' U 2R y U' 3L' U 3L z U m2 z' y' U' 3R U2 3R' z x2 2L' U' 2L F 2R U2 m' z' y' U2 3r U2 3r' z 2L' U' m U m' 3l' z' y' U' 3r U2 3r' z x2 U2 3l' U' 3r' U 3r y F' U 2R U' 2R' U 2R U 2R'
RW edge: y' U2 2l2 U' 4R' L2 U' 2R' U2 3r2 D
OW edge: 2R2 U2 6R' U2 3R2 L U' 2R' L D L
Finish Roux Block: 3R 6R2 2l R2 U 2R' U2 m2 U' 6R U R' U' R U2 D2 R U' R U R' U R' U2 F U' x2
Bottom Center: 6R 4R 2R U m2 U m U' m' U 2R2 U' 2l2 6R U 2R U' 2R' 3r U 3r2 U' 3r' U 3r U' 3l 6R' 3R' U' 3R F' 2R U' 2R2 6R U' 2R' U2 2R 6R' 4R' U 4R U 3R U' 3R' 3r F
Yellow center: z2 U' 2R' U 2R y U' 3L' U 3L z U m2 z' y' U' 3R U2 3R' z x2 2L' U' 2L F 2R U2 m' z' y' U2 3r U2 3r' z 2L' U' m U m' 3l' z' y' U' 3r U2 3r' z x2 U2 3l' U' 3r' U 3r y F' U 2R U' 2R' U 2R U 2R'
RW edge: y' U2 2l2 U' 4R' L2 U' 2R' U2 3r2 D
OW edge: 2R2 U2 6R' U2 3R2 L U' 2R' L D L
Finish Roux Block: 3R 6R2 2l R2 U 2R' U2 m2 U' 6R U R' U' R U2 D2 R U' R U R' U R' U2 F U' x2
Bottom Center: 6R 4R 2R U m2 U m U' m' U 2R2 U' 2l2 6R U 2R U' 2R' 3r U 3r2 U' 3r' U 3r U' 3l 6R' 3R' U' 3R F' 2R U' 2R2 6R U' 2R' U2 2R 6R' 4R' U 4R U 3R U' 3R' 3r F
Is this notation alg.garren compatible?
Schmidt
Veteran
[Pressing Ctrl-C, opening alg.garron.us, pressing Ctrl-V, reloading as a 7x7x7]
No!
It doesn't like text and : in the beginning. I think the right way is to write the alg. first and then "/White center."
And the scramble would be nice to have too.
emolover
Legend
Look 6 posts above mine.
I gave up though.
I have a question for you big cubers. Did you practice a lot to get to where you are now? I personally have not and it makes me think if I did, I would be world class.
DYGH.Tjen
Veteran
Hi
I can't believe I'm posting in the bigcube thread zomg lol I hate bigcubes, but yeah. I use 32223 for 4x4. The moment I finish the centers, I do a Uw, and start filling in 3 edges. The thing is, I often get something like when I do the Uw and put in an edge piece, following that, I can't find the next edge piece. I look around for like 20 hours, then I realise the corresponding edge piece is actually paired with the previous edge. How do I solve this? Since if I take out the edge, I will make the first edge I inserted in useless, since its pair is already somewhere else.
Lol this was so hard to explain. If someone actually gets it and is willing to help, thanks!
I can't believe I'm posting in the bigcube thread zomg lol I hate bigcubes, but yeah. I use 32223 for 4x4. The moment I finish the centers, I do a Uw, and start filling in 3 edges. The thing is, I often get something like when I do the Uw and put in an edge piece, following that, I can't find the next edge piece. I look around for like 20 hours, then I realise the corresponding edge piece is actually paired with the previous edge. How do I solve this? Since if I take out the edge, I will make the first edge I inserted in useless, since its pair is already somewhere else.
Lol this was so hard to explain. If someone actually gets it and is willing to help, thanks!
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