[Help Thread] 4x4 Discussion

[rajanish]

Which is most widely used.
So that it goes in a flow.

 

[shadowslice e]

Which is most widely used.
So that it goes in a flow.

Hoya seems to flow the most but Yau is more widely used. There are a couple of other things you could look at likeK4 and Meyer.

 

[rajanish]

Can use send me the link please.
I'm not getting on YouTube.

 

[shadowslice e]

Can use send me the link please.
I'm not getting on YouTube.

There are brief summaries of the methods with useful links in the wiki

 

[OLLiver]

Hello, so I am sub 1:40 on 4x4 after doing 50 solves. So uh want to get sub 1
My centers take 18 seconds. My edges take 45 seconds (freeslice edge pairing). My 3x3 stage is about 25-35 seconds If parities.
So how can I get faster?

 

[Berd]

Hello, so I am sub 1:40 on 4x4 after doing 50 solves. So uh want to get sub 1
My centers take 18 seconds. My edges take 45 seconds (freeslice edge pairing). My 3x3 stage is about 25-35 seconds If parities.
So how can I get faster?

Use Yau or Hoya!

 

[Isaac Lai]

Hello, so I am sub 1:40 on 4x4 after doing 50 solves. So uh want to get sub 1
My centers take 18 seconds. My edges take 45 seconds (freeslice edge pairing). My 3x3 stage is about 25-35 seconds If parities.
So how can I get faster?

Yau is probably your best bet.

 

[SenorJuan]

Quote:"My centers take 18 seconds. My edges take 45 seconds"
You've obviously got the speed (based on your 3x3x3 stage times) so you should be aiming for 10 - 15 secs for centres, which includes improving your inspection phase. And edge-pairing is typically only 35-40 turns, so just practicing loads should get that down below 25 secs. If you've read Chris Hardwicks 4x4x4 guide, you will see that's the pace he was at: 35 secs reduction, 25 for the 3x3x3 stage.

 

[PenguinsDontFly]

Quote:"My centers take 18 seconds. My edges take 45 seconds"
You've obviously got the speed (based on your 3x3x3 stage times) so you should be aiming for 10 - 15 secs for centres, which includes improving your inspection phase. And edge-pairing is typically only 35-40 turns, so just practicing loads should get that down below 25 secs. If you've read Chris Hardwicks 4x4x4 guide, you will see that's the pace he was at: 35 secs reduction, 25 for the 3x3x3 stage.

wow. I didnt think it was possible to be sub 1 on 4x4 with 25s 3x3 stage. That reduction is really good. 35 is like my reduction times

 

[SenorJuan]

I was impressed by Chris' times, especially considering things like: Poor cubes (likely a Rubiks Revenge), his centres method isn't considered the fastest (it's subjective, but Pochmanns method seems a bit quicker), and some of his pairing methods are 'odd'. Particularly the 'last two dedges' technique where they need swapping 'cross-over'. He flips a dedge, does a slice, flips again and slices back. It seems easier to do R2 to put them diagonally, then (dD)2, flip the dedge, (dD)2 to finish.

 

[mark49152]

He flips a dedge, does a slice, flips again and slices back. It seems easier to do R2 to put them diagonally, then (dD)2, flip the dedge, (dD)2 to finish.

If you use Yau or Hoya, that breaks your cross, you have to do U(') R2 to restore, and its less ergonomic with those double moves. Given that flipping an edge is fast, I prefer to flip, slice, flip. It's personal preference of course.

I'm not familiar with Hardwick's or Pochmann's original methods, but the modern approaches are Yau or Hoya, with 3-2-3 or 6-2 edge pairing or similar. Definitely look to those resources first.

 

[SenorJuan]

True, my comments were specifically about plain reduction (which Chris used in his guide) as that was what OLLiver was asking about. Chris does say he generally avoids diagonal pairing ( ie. ones needing (dD)2 moves) and I can see why. But this particular two-dedge solve is more likely to be the last two dedges, where issues like checking that other edge-pieces aren't in awkward slots etc don't occur.
It's probably worth OLLiver practicing plain reduction a bit more (he's not done many solves), just to improve his basic skills, then apply them to more modern methods like Yau.

 

[mark49152]

True, my comments were specifically about plain reduction (which Chris used in his guide) as that was what OLLiver was asking about.

Oh, I though he was asking how to get faster, in which case my advice would echo several others here, and that is to forget plain reduction and look at Yau or Hoya. They are both forms of reduction anyway, aimed at making it easier and/or more efficient.

 

[2180161]

I'm having trouble with the stadler method. I the same case as A3 on http://www.speedcubing.ch/4x4 Solution/Stadler Methode 4x4.htm , and I perform the alg, and nothing happens. Is it possible I'm doing it wrong?

 

[OLLiver]

True, my comments were specifically about plain reduction (which Chris used in his guide) as that was what OLLiver was asking about. Chris does say he generally avoids diagonal pairing ( ie. ones needing (dD)2 moves) and I can see why. But this particular two-dedge solve is more likely to be the last two dedges, where issues like checking that other edge-pieces aren't in awkward slots etc don't occur.
It's probably worth OLLiver practicing plain reduction a bit more (he's not done many solves), just to improve his basic skills, then apply them to more modern methods like Yau.

Yau only advantage is that you complete cross first right? I have tried yau and It kinda bleh. can reduction be sub 45 relatively easily?

 

[Cale S]

Yau only advantage is that you complete cross first right? I have tried yau and It kinda bleh. can reduction be sub 45 relatively easily?

Have you tried Hoya? It's much easier to switch to and has really good lookahead once you get used to it.

 

[supercavitation]

Yau only advantage is that you complete cross first right? I have tried yau and It kinda bleh. can reduction be sub 45 relatively easily?

That and it has much easier lookahead during edge pairing.

 

[BananaSlayer64]

Yau only advantage is that you complete cross first right? I have tried yau and It kinda bleh. can reduction be sub 45 relatively easily?

Try Hoya! It was easier for me to switch to than Yau. It has great lookahead and it can be really fast

 

[Aaron Lau]

Yau only advantage is that you complete cross first right? I have tried yau and It kinda bleh. can reduction be sub 45 relatively easily?

nope the lookahead is much better esp on edges. eventhough i average 1.05-1.10 i can easily get edges done in in 12s.

 

[shadowslice e]

I use Hoya ATM and average around 1:30-1:35
F4C: 10-15
F4E/L2C: 25
L8E: 20-30 (it's the lower one if I solve cross+1 edge)
3x3x3: 30

What should I work on?

(I've only been doing Hoya for about 2 days so far but I love the lookahead compared to Yau, straight redux or Meyer- I haven't gotten around to K4 yet).