[Help Thread] OLL and PLL Discussion

[FatBoyXPC]

The most 'intuitive' way to do OLL is to learn what a certain alg does to the cube, and learn how to apply it. Much like when I learned how to do the megaminx, I kept doing the T perm and then AUFing until I could get the pieces lined up correctly.

For instance, learn an alg that will two edges, learn how to AUF to orient all four edges (if necessary), and then learn an alorithm that orients corners, preferrably in pairs.

BUT

All that work has been done for you, known as 2 Look OLL. So why spend all the time learning all that when you F RU'R'U' F' will orient opposite edges and f RUR'U' f' will do the adjacent edges. Really if you have two adjacent edges, but you place them a U2 away from how it's supposed to go when you'd normally apply the f RUR'U' f', and do F RUR'U' F' two times, it'll give you all four edges oriented. But my point is, by learning 2LOLL, all your "work" is done for you, with some VERY simple algs.

Those two algs are almost identical. If you don't count capitalization, they are.

Then you have just a few algs for your orientation of the corners. If you take Sune, and do it backward OR do it in your left hand just mirroring your right hand (such as R = L', U = U' etc. Think of if your right hand goes "up then pull" then your left goes "up pull" etc.) You just learned two algs after learning one, whether you choose to apply it backward or with your other hand. Same goes for a few of the other OLL's for corners.


My point is..doing OLL "intuitively" would eventually get you to this point. So just save yourself some trouble and learn 2LOLL.



The exact same thing applies for 2LPLL, minus the fact you can R' D R AUF R' D' Rall day long to fix the corners.

 

[frogmanson]

with commutators, its very easy to do some OLL and PLL, off the top of my head are the U and T OLL the A and E perms

 

[tribaleps]

Ok, so I take it that memorising 2 look-OLLs and PLLs is the most 'efficient' way. Thanks! *thumbs to fatboyxpc*.

 

[Faran]

So as my V-Cube 7 is sitting on the table wobbling from the keyboard tapping I'm thinking about learning full OLL.

So yesterday I finally learned the last PLL algortihm. Now knowing all 21 algortihms for PLL, it's time to tackle the 57 for OLL. But I'm just wondering for you who know full OLL; isn't it hard to remember how to hold the cube, excactly how the case looks like (since there are many that looks very similar) before performing the algortihm?

I already know a few OLL cases not counting the ones for the cross. I learned them just cause they are very short. One of them I learned because it included the last moves that were in the Y-permutation on PLL. But I just want the question answered. That's up there.

Thanks!

 

[joey]

No it isn't.

 

[Olivér Perge]

It's the same as the PLLs, you will get used to it eventually. Fewer moves, easier to recognize, but more to learn. Try to locate the pairs which are moving during OLL. Also try to learn them in groups (inverse, mirror algorithms).

Don't worry, 2-3 month from now, you will laugh on this read.

 

[some1rational]

yea, like the first two replies, it's really not that bad; stay determined and focused...look at similar cases and spot the differences

I personally learned a few at a time while solving constantly (obviously I guess), and everytime I got to an OLL case, I'd do the OLL closest to it that I could think of; eventually as I learned more OLLs it was easier for me to easily distinguish the OLL cases (semi-conscious process of elimination everyone develops); gl keep practicing

 

[RyanReese09]

I can understand this question...for zbll. that's a worry of mine

but trust me, a mere 57 algorithms..it sounds like alot. all the cases. but if you actually have any sort of memory at all (unless its ***king attrotious) you will easiliy remmeber all the algorithms and how to hold it, etc

 

[ThePuzzler96]

No, not at all. You get used to it very fast

 

[Chrish]

Was learning PLL hard? Your answer will apply for OLL as well. It's the exact same process.

 

[Faran]

Nope, didn't really have any problems learning PLL. Also, after learning a couple more OLLs, I havn't had problems doing the wrong algorithm for example.

 

[XXGeneration]

OLLs are insanely easy to remember. 50 or less algs now just seem very little.

 

[NeuwDk]

Recognition isn't hard for OLL. For me it takes like only half the time Compared to PLL.

For learning it - most cases are pretty similar I'd say - as soon as you have learned them, you'll think it wasn't hard

 

[Rpotts]

You know the first 8 moves/last 8 moves of Y perm are OLLs right? Do (R U R' U') (R' F R F')

F (R U' R' U') (R U R') F'

the same can be said vice versa

make sure you know all of the easy F (R U R' U')x2 F' and f (R U R' U')x2 f'

Also F (R U R' U') F' f (R U R' U') f'

there are many easy OLLs, really only a handful of bad cases, but with practice they all become pretty easy if you use good algs.

Do it slowly, try to really be able to remember/use in solves all of the OLLs you learn before learning another 1-5 at a time.

When I learned I had up to 10-15 in iffy territory at once and it sucked. There are several places to find good algs

[wiki]OLL[/wiki]

woner's page

 

[Joker]

OLLs are easy. The only thing is that there is alot of them.

 

[KboyForeverB]

OLLs are easy. The only thing is that there is alot of them.

I agree

 

[cincyaviation]

OLLs are easy. The only thing is that there is alot of them.

Not really.

 

[hic0057]

I'm currently learning OLL. If you want good alg check out badmephisto site, he has got them nicely in order by triggers http://www.badmephisto.com/oll.php
Although the way he has ordered them may work for him I find it easier to learn them in groups of what shape it got like how speedsolving Wiki got it.http://www.speedsolving.com/wiki/index.php/OLL

 

[dimwmuni]

How I learned the OLL's I learned all the cases with the cross (7) then all the cases with a dot (8) and then all the cases with the line (15 i think) and then the cases with the L cases (27 i think). That way, once I was done learning the dot cases, if one came up i would know I knew it and so I learned to distinguish between them. The same goes for the line and L.

It's really easy to recognize them once you have been doing it awhile.

 

[Godmil]

I love the layout of on Page3 of Bad Mephisto's printable sheet: http://www.badmephisto.com/badmephisto-speedcubing-method.pdf
There are nice groups that you can learn... for example I like to always perform the algs with the cube in the correct state (rather than just doing it again and again and messing up the last layer). So for example, the two 'square' OLL's are inverses of the top two 'Lighting' OLL's. So you can do a square OLL and end up with a lighting, then you solve the lighting... do it again and you've got the square... I found going back and forth between different algs to be easier to remember them in the long run.
I also made notes on the page to show which shapes made which other ones.

There are also lots of nice tricks that you can see to help remember which is which pattern... for example, the square shapes each have a single yellow on one side - that always goes to the right, then if the square is at the back of the top layer you do a r or if it's at the front you do a r' (moving the layer in the direction of the square).
Good luck.