# [Help Thread]OLL and PLL Discussion

#### xyzzy

##### Member
It would be good for FMC though, even it HTM it’s 12 moves, and 7 in STM.
12 is optimal for Z perm (with any AUF), but there are shorter 2e2e cases (e.g. R2 U2 R2 U2 R2 U2 or R2 F2 R2 U2 F2 R2 F2 U2 or R U R' U' F2 L' U' L U F2) so in actual FMC solves you'd try to use 2e2e insertions instead.

#### zzoomer

##### Member
A program can never decide what fingertricks and algs are good for you.
Maybe it can't determine best algs for you perfectly, but it usually is correct determining what algs are better than others. It can still be very helpful for filtering out blatantly bad algorithms, when you're trying to gen algorithms. The program actually does keep track of things like grip and what fingertricks need to be used, and AFAIK trangium is actively working on improving the program and making it more accurate.

#### OtterCuber

##### Member
Newb here, but I sometimes see people recommending to learn PLL before OLL. But, if I don't know OLL, how can I get the top to be all yellow, which is a prerequisite for PLL? What method should I use for getting the top all yellow?

#### xyzzy

##### Member
But, if I don't know OLL, how can I get the top to be all yellow, which is a prerequisite for PLL? What method should I use for getting the top all yellow?
By splitting OLL into two easier steps: orienting the edges first, then orienting the corners (while keeping edges oriented).

#### OtterCuber

##### Member
By splitting OLL into two easier steps: orienting the edges first, then orienting the corners (while keeping edges oriented).
Got it, thanks. So the recommendation is to learn 2-look OLL then full PLL and then full OLL, in that order.

#### hellocubers

##### Member
Got it, thanks. So the recommendation is to learn 2-look OLL then full PLL and then full OLL, in that order.
kind of.

#### Megaminx lover

##### Member
Me attempting to get a sub 1 any PLL and this happens

#### stwert

##### Member
Got it, thanks. So the recommendation is to learn 2-look OLL then full PLL and then full OLL, in that order.
It would be 2-look OLL and 2-look PLL which kind of have to go together as beginners method has a different order, and then when you want to learn some more algs, you can start adding more PLL cases. If you don't know a case (like me, I still have a few PLLs to learn) then you fall back to 2-look. Some people don't recommend learning full OLL until you're very fast, as 2-look OLL can be pretty fast as is.

#### MJbaka

##### Member
Guys try switching to lefty E perm. I did it and my E perm improved by nearly a whole second, and I average 0.8x on my E perms now.

#### zzoomer

##### Member
Guys try switching to lefty E perm. I did it and my E perm improved by nearly a whole second, and I average 0.8x on my E perms now.
Theoretically, they're the same speed.

#### LBr

##### Member

U perm - M S D S' D2 S' D' S D2 M' (and the mirror)
Z perm - (M S D S' D2 M' D)x2
H perm (imo the easiest to learn but not intuitive) M2 U2 M2 U M2 U2 M2

If you want to teach your parents who are experiencing a mid-life crisis these EPLLs, teach them these (maybe not)

#### Megaminx lover

##### Member
OCLLs generated by the movecount coefficient calculator
OLL 21: R U R' U R U' R' U R U2 R'
OLL 22: F U R U' R' S U R U' R' f'
OLL 23: R2 D R' U2 R D' R' U2 R'
OLL 24: F R B' R' F' R B R'
OLL 25: R2 D R' U R D' R' U' R'
OLL 26: r' F' r U' r' F2 r (?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????)
OLL 27: R U R' U R U2 R'

#### Cubing Forever

##### Member
OCLLs generated by the movecount coefficient calculator
OLL 21: R U R' U R U' R' U R U2 R'
OLL 22: F U R U' R' S U R U' R' f'
OLL 23: R2 D R' U2 R D' R' U2 R'
OLL 24: F R B' R' F' R B R'
OLL 25: R2 D R' U R D' R' U' R'
OLL 26: r' F' r U' r' F2 r (?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????)
OLL 27: R U R' U R U2 R'
My OCLLs(just comparing)
21: R U2 R' U' R U R' U' R U' R'
22: R U2 R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 R'
23: R2 D' R U2 R' D R U2 R
24: r U R' U' r' F R F' and R' F' r U R U' r' F
25: F R' F' r U R U' r' and F' r U R' U' r' F R
26: R U2 R' U' R U' R' and R' U' R U' R' U2 R
27: R U R' U R U2 R' and R' U2 R U R' U R

btw r' F' r U r' F2 r = L' U' L U' L' U2 L

#### Cubing Forever

##### Member
Sorry for double post, but here's a list of OH 4LLL algs which I used to use(posted this because I've never seen a list of OH 4LLLs)

2LOLL:
Orient edges:
Line: F R U R' U' F'
L: F U R U' R' F'
dot: F R U R' U' F' U2 F U R U' R' F'

Orient corners:
Sune: R U R' U R U2 R'
Anti Sune: R U2 R' U' R U' R'
H: (Sune)x2
Pi: R U2 R2 U' R2 U' R2 U2 R
T: R U2 R' U' R U' R2 U2 R U R' U R
U: R U R' U R U2 R2 U' R U' R' U2 R
L: (Sune)x3

Permute corners:
Adjacent swap(headlights on left): R U R' U' R' F R2 U' R' U' R U R' F'
Diagonal swap: R' U z U' R2 D R' U D' R U' R2 D R' U

Permute edges:
Ua: R U' R U R U R U' R' U' R2
Ub: R2 U R U R' U' R' U' R' U R
H: M2 U' M2 U2 M2 U' M2 or S R U2 R2 U2 R2 U2 R S'
Z: M2 U' M2 U' M' U2 M2 U2 M'

#### zzoomer

##### Member
OLL 26: r' F' r U' r' F2 r (?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????)
That's just lefty sune written differently.

#### the dnf master

##### Member

U perm - M S D S' D2 S' D' S D2 M' (and the mirror)
Z perm - (M S D S' D2 M' D)x2
H perm (imo the easiest to learn but not intuitive) M2 U2 M2 U M2 U2 M2

If you want to teach your parents who are experiencing a mid-life crisis these EPLLs, teach them these (maybe not)
the easiest H perm to learn is probably z2 (R U R' U' D)30

#### Megaminx lover

##### Member
This time, I used the movecount coefficient calculator to do OLLs instead. (Note: these are not the OO OLLs)

OLL 1: R U' R2 D' r U' r' D R2 U R'
OLL 2: f U R U' R' S' U R U' R' F'
OLL 3: r' R2 U R' U r U2 r' U M'
OLL 4: R' F R F' U' S R' U' R U R S'
OLL 5: l' U2 L U L' U l
OLL 6: l U2 L' U' L U' l'
OLL 7: r U R' U R U2 r'
OLL 8: l' U' L U' L' U2 l
OLL 9: R U2 R' U' S' R U' R' S
OLL 10: f R f' r' U r U' r' U' r
OLL 11: r' R2 U R' U R U2 R' U M'
OLL 12: R r2 F' r U' r' F2 r U' M'
OLL 13: F U R U' R2 F' R U R U' R'
OLL 14: R' F R U R' F' R y' R U' R'
OLL 15: l' U' l L' U' L U l' U l
OLL 16: r U r' R U R' U' r U' r'
OLL 17: F R' F' R U S' R U' R' S
OLL 18: F S' R U' R' S R U2' R' U' F'
OLL 19: R' U2 F R U R' U' F2 U2 F R
OLL 20: S R' U' R U R U R U' R' S'
OLL 21: R U R' U R U' R' U R U2 R'
OLL 22: F U R U' R' S U R U' R' f'
OLL 23: R2 D R' U2 R D' R' U2 R'
OLL 24: F R B' R' F' R B R'
OLL 25: R2 D R' U R D' R' U' R'
OLL 26: r' F' r U' r' F2 r
OLL 27: R U R' U R U2 R'
OLL 28: R' F R S R' F' R S'
OLL 29: R F R' U R F' R2' F R U' R' F' R
OLL 30: S' R' U' R f R' U R U' F'
OLL 31: R' U' F U R U' R' F' R
OLL 32: S' r' F' r U f U F'
OLL 33: R' U' R U R f' U' f
OLL 34: F U F' U' R' F' r U M
OLL 35: R U2 R2 F R F' R U2 R'
OLL 36: r' F' r U' r' F r U r U' r' F
OLL 37: F R' F' R U R U' R'
OLL 38: F R U' R' S U' R U R' f
OLL 39: R B' R' U' R U B U' R'
OLL 40: R' F R U R' U' F' U R
OLL 41: F U R2 D R' U' R D' R2 F'
OLL 42: R' U' F2 u' R U R' D R2 B
OLL 43: R' U' F' U F R
OLL 44: F U R U' R' F'
OLL 45: f U R U' R' f'
OLL 46: F U F R' F' R U' F'
OLL 47: f' U' L' U L U' L' U L f /f' U' r' F r U' r' F r f
OLL 48: f U R U' R' U R U' R' f'
OLL 49: L F' L2 B L2 F L2 B' L
OLL 50: R' F R2 B' R2 F' R2 B R'
OLL 51: F U R U' R' U R U' R' F'
OLL 52: R U R' U R U' f R' f' R'
OLL 53: l' U' L U' L' U L U' L' U2 l
OLL 54: r U R' U R U' R' U R U2 r'
OLL 55: R' F R U R U' R2 F' R2 U' R' U R U R'
OLL 56: R U' R' U' S' R U' R' S U R U R'
OLL 57: R U' R' S' R U R' S

#### Kedin drysdale

##### Member
If i average around 20 25 seconds should i learn all 57 oll cases

#### PiKeeper

##### Member
If i average around 20 25 seconds should i learn all 57 oll cases
Learn pll first if you haven't already, but you really only need to learn full oll once you're around 15 seconds.

#### fortissim2

##### Member
OLL 4: R' F R F' U' S R' U' R U R S'
OLL 56: R U' R' U' S' R U' R' S U R U R'
These OLLs are actually pretty fun to execute, surprised I haven't found them anywhere else