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[Help Thread] OLL and PLL Discussion

subs

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Apr 16, 2014
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11
Why PLL before OLL?
---
Like a few of you, I'm older- I cubed in the 80s and have now come back to it. Ok- like very few of you. ;)

I'm not sure where I learned my original Layer-by-Layer method, but to do the Last Layer, my method permuted the pieces to the correct positions, and then orients them. Generally speaking- why do do people OLL before PLL? I tried to search in the forums and on the web, but didn't find anything relevant.

Thanks!
-Danny
 

Sub1Hour

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Why PLL before OLL?
---
Like a few of you, I'm older- I cubed in the 80s and have now come back to it. Ok- like very few of you. ;)

I'm not sure where I learned my original Layer-by-Layer method, but to do the Last Layer, my method permuted the pieces to the correct positions, and then orients them. Generally speaking- why do do people OLL before PLL? I tried to search in the forums and on the web, but didn't find anything relevant.

Thanks!
-Danny
Because recognition for 1 color and then recognition for certain shapes and patterns is much easier than trying to find the permutation while all of the pieces are not oriented first. There are also much shorter OLL algs if you don't have to preserve the permutation. Lower movecount and easy recog is why. If you look at CLL algorithms they are much harder to recognize when you first learn them because its harder to find out what goes where.
 

EngiNerdBrian

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Jun 21, 2018
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Why PLL before OLL?
---
Like a few of you, I'm older- I cubed in the 80s and have now come back to it. Ok- like very few of you. ;)

I'm not sure where I learned my original Layer-by-Layer method, but to do the Last Layer, my method permuted the pieces to the correct positions, and then orients them. Generally speaking- why do do people OLL before PLL? I tried to search in the forums and on the web, but didn't find anything relevant.

Thanks!
-Danny
Once you move past the beginner method and start trying to minimize move count with algorithms i find that in general its easier to permute pieces while maintaining orientation than it is to orient pieces while maintaining their positions (permutation).
 

N's-cvt

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Feb 5, 2020
Messages
95
Something I noticed today as I was cubing and doing some OLLCP stuff I realized I had a diagonal cp so I did my normal OLL alg since I don't know the case yet and I was blown away that an Eperm showed up becuase I always thought that an E-perm was a diagonal because it swaps 2 sets of adjacent corners. I then spent 5 minutes trying to figure this out when I realized that when you AUF the E-perm it does become a diagonal PLL. So I don't know what to think guys, what is this PLL really?
 
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Something I noticed today as I was cubing and doing some OLLCP stuff I realized I had a diagonal cp so I did my normal OLL alg since I don't know the case yet and I was blown away that an Eperm showed up becuase I always thought that an E-perm was a diagonal because it swaps 2 sets of adjacent corners. I then spent 5 minutes trying to figure this out when I realized that when you AUF the E-perm it does become a diagonal PLL. So I don't know what to think guys, what is this PLL really?
It is a Diagonal PLL
 

Chinmay47

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May 25, 2020
Messages
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Even though OLL is the strongest part of my solves, I still hate it! I've tried OLL skips a lot of times using VLS and Winter Variations. But it doesn't work significantly. Can someone help me with skipping OLLs?
 
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Even though OLL is the strongest part of my solves, I still hate it! I've tried OLL skips a lot of times using VLS and Winter Variations. But it doesn't work significantly. Can someone help me with skipping OLLs?
Skipping OLL with VLS is maybe worth it, but skipping OLL with WV as a whole isn't worth it, you should definitely just drill your OLLs unless you want to learn hundreds of algs.
 

Sub1Hour

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Even though OLL is the strongest part of my solves, I still hate it! I've tried OLL skips a lot of times using VLS and Winter Variations. But it doesn't work significantly. Can someone help me with skipping OLLs?
You can do edge control to force good cases but skipping OLL as a whole is not worth the time unless you are at an extremely elite level. For now, work on your F2L and once you get to a point where you have sub-6 splits consistently, then you should focus more on LL (I know, I am guilty of not working on LL but I don't care about my 3x3 results all that much)
 
Joined
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a Pokedex or somewhere near you.
You can do edge control to force good cases but skipping OLL as a whole is not worth the time unless you are at an extremely elite level. For now, work on your F2L and once you get to a point where you have sub-6 splits consistently, then you should focus more on LL (I know, I am guilty of not working on LL but I don't care about my 3x3 results all that much)
Even edge control all the time to always get good cases is not worth it.
 

Sub1Hour

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Even edge control all the time to always get good cases is not worth it.
I agree with you if you interpreted that as only getting cross cases. If you even pay the slightest attention to EO during your last slot you will never get a dot case ever again and it's worth it to do a sledge instead of a anti-sexy or a anti-sexy instead of a sledge
 

EngiNerdBrian

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Jun 21, 2018
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IMO since your recent posts indicate you are still averaging above 30 seconds it seems using winter variation and other advanced alg sets is not an efficient use of your practice time. I would just focus on the fundamentals of cross + f2L to improve your overall times and just drill your last layer algs to make OLL less painful for you.
 

Chinmay47

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May 25, 2020
Messages
80
IMO since your recent posts indicate you are still averaging above 30 seconds it seems using winter variation and other advanced alg sets is not an efficient use of your practice time. I would just focus on the fundamentals of cross + f2L to improve your overall times and just drill your last layer algs to make OLL less painful for you.
Oh Man! I think this might still be better! I don't wanna learn 100s of algorithms more in this series! I can already feel the hemispheres of my brain falling out when I think of learning 100s of algorithms ignoring my F2L times! Thank You for the suggestion. Will try it ASAP!
 

Chinmay47

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May 25, 2020
Messages
80
They tend to be the longest and hardest to learn, I only know the dot case that has all corners oriented and I don't plan on learning any more since its easier to just force a line or L case.
Dot Cases = Nightmares of OLL coming true!:eek::eek:
 

xyzzy

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Dec 24, 2015
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They tend to be the longest and hardest to learn,
R U2 R' sledge U2 sledge and R U R' U sledge U2 sledge very hard to learn.
[R U' R2 D' r : U] and [R U' R2 D' r : U'] very hard to learn.
[R' U2 r U' r' : U2] and [r U r' U2 R : U2] very hard to learn.
[R' F2 R2 U2 R' : F'] and [R' F2 R2 U2 R' : F] very hard to learn.
M R U R' U r U2 r' U M' very hard to learn.

Dots suck, yes, but refusing to learn them is kind of silly imo.
 
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