[Help Thread] OLL and PLL Discussion

[uberCuber]

On topic if cubing is worth your time so is learning oll and pll and to the g perm guy learn them then instead of just drilling them do many solves and some of them will have g perm thats a better way to do it imo

I had to read this several times to figure out what you were trying to say. Nice use of punctuation. :tu


On topic: IIRC, at least one cuber besides Feliks has posted a sub-9 avg12 with 2-look OLL just to prove that it is possible. Working on your F2L is so much more important.

 

[curtishousley]

I'm on the fence about this lol. I average 33 seconds, so obviously I have a lot of work to do on every step. I made the mistake of learning 'just one' OLL because I seemed to see it often. But now I see a lot of cases often and it kind of distracts me from 2look OLL.I decided to learn some more but it kind of just distracts me more, not sure yet.

 

[Bapao]

On topic if cubing is worth your time so is learning oll and pll and to the g perm guy learn them then instead of just drilling them do many solves and some of them will have g perm thats a better way to do it imo

That's my exact approach but it isn't helping. Need to start grinding, which makes things a chore.

 

[Godmil]

at least one cuber besides Feliks has posted a sub-9 avg12 with 2-look OLL just to prove that it is possible. Working on your F2L is so much more important.

F2L certainly is the most important thing to work on if you wanna be really fast but that's someyhing you should always be working on while still improving your other stages. and while it is possible to have a fast OLL stage with 2look, it's surely significantly harder.

 

[Akuma]

Full PLL is really not hard to learn at all.
Sure, there's 21 algorithms, but manu of them are mirrored varients of each other.
Full PLL is worth it for the heck of it

As for OLL, if you refuse to learn full OLL there are ways of getting around it.
Edge control (VHF2L) is one way to get around it.

 

[Hershey]

As for OLL, if you refuse to learn full OLL there are ways of getting around it.
Edge control (VHF2L) is one way to get around it.

Pairing up the 4 pairs, using VH on the last pair, then corner orientation, and PLL take more moves than
doing the four F2L pairs, OLL, PLL.

 

[uberCuber]

Pairing up the 4 pairs, using VH on the last pair, then corner orientation, and PLL take more moves than
doing the four F2L pairs, OLL, PLL.

He wasn't saying that it was the best thing to do. It's just that it requires 50 less algorithms, so it is something you can do if you are too lazy to learn all 57 OLLs.

 

[Selkie]

Pairing up the 4 pairs, using VH on the last pair, then corner orientation, and PLL take more moves than
doing the four F2L pairs, OLL, PLL.

I agree, VHF2L is a good set of algs to add to an arsenal but it is debatable whether they are of that much use in 3x3 compared to bigger cubes. I learned them a couple of months ago but have to confess I only regularly use about 6 of the cases. They are just too long winded compared to the ZBF2L algs they are a subset of. If you happen to have one of the 4 F2L cases covered by VHF2L then great. Otherwise I doubt you will save any time unless your TPS is very good. And the best advantages can be had in following the edge orientation with the relevant COLL case.

I have looked into other LL methods or LL influencing and learned a few tricks/subsets but none were easier than learning full OLL which I am glad I did very early. 57 + 21 algs may sound like a very daunting task but if you stick to 1 a day you will be fine in my experience and it is well worth the effort.

 

[Eleredo]

It's certainly worth it. I'm starting to learn them too since I've hit a plateau at the moment. I know 7 PLL's right now and every time I get a case I know, my time is sub 25, something which rarely happens when I'm doing 2-look. I can't wait till I know all PLL's, must be awesome.

 

[Mudkip]

Definately learn all of your OLLs and PLLs.
Just learn them slowly, like no more than 1 a day. If at any point you forget an old algorithm,
don't learn a new one that day, just reinforce the tough ones.

 

[jonlin]

I became sub 30 as soon as I finished full oll and pll.

I don't know about 40 of my olls and I am almost sub-20.Imfao I am 10 years old. almost all kids my age I see on youtube are not even sub-50.

 

[jonlin]

On the topic of G-perms: I never learned them, and I never will.

You must be stupid. G perms sometimes help a lot.

 

[Eleredo]

A couple of questions about OLL/PLL

I decided to learn full OLL and PLL. I started learning PLL now, and I'm learning 1 algorithm a day because I don't want them to mix all up in my head. Is this a good pace?

I learned my tenth algorithm today and it's going quite well. The only problem I sometimes have is that I see a case I learned, and I have to think really hard to recall which algorithm I need to use for it but I guess this'll get better by getting more and more of these cases in further solves. Sometimes, I also forget an algorithm suddenly but when I wait a couple of minutes and relax, it comes back.

As for PLL, I first learn the cases of which I think pop up the most or I just pick a random case, but as for OLL I'm wondering what works best; should I learn them by category (first learn T shapes, then W shapes, etc. etc.)?

Also, I'm going to learn full OLL immediately after full PLL. Will this work out well or is this a rather bad idea and will things mix up after some time?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Ezy Ryder]

First, solve as much as You can. The more You get each case, the better You'll be at recalling and solving it. Learn the OLL's whichever order You want, I don't think it makes a difference. And one last thing; one algorithm per day is good at the beginning (though it wouldn't hurt You if You'd practice mirroring algorithms, so for example when You learn A, You can also try to do A', either by doing A backwards, or... mirrored... so that R becomes L' and U becomes U'...), but later You will probably want to do more in one day (probably when there will be 10-20 left). It also depends on Your day. When I was learning full OLL and just was tired, I simply skipped a day. And when I was closer to the end, I was learning five or six algorithms in one day.
I hope that I helped. Good luck.

 

[retep]

Well I am rather new to speedcubing myself and rather recently (less than 2 weeks ago) learned full PLL, I am currently debating learning full OLL (my 2 look OLL is currently faster than my full PLL...). Anyway yes, 1 alg a day is fine, I found myself learning 1 a day if it was a harder alg to learn and/or unique, but I tried to learn 2 a day if it was an easier (or shorter) alg or if there was another quite similar to it (like the J and T perms on Badmephisto's site).

I personally found after running into an alg like 2-3 times during an actual solve (whether timed or not) it was much easier for me to identify and perform, and became quite instinctual (you don't really mix up algs and it comes to you fairly quickly after you identified which alg it actually is) after running into it like 5+ times.

Can't really answer you OLL question, I was thinking of just learning them in the order listed on BadMephisto's site, seem well organized by "triggers" and could probably learn 2-3 a day of some of them.

 

[Ickenicke]

I had also hard to recall algorithms in the beginning.
But use them in solves and I think it will start feels naturally after a while.

Also a tips when you are going to learn OLL.

Don't learn all algs from a side like badmephisto or something like that. Check the wiki and also check Breandans OLL video He is often using algs from 2 angles, and if you don't want to use both you can at least pick one of them if you want to!

Good luck with learning your algs!

 

[Ickenicke]

Can't really answer you OLL question, I was thinking of just learning them in the order listed on BadMephisto's site, seem well organized by "triggers" and could probably learn 2-3 a day of some of them.

Some of badmephisto's algs are very bad. Pick your own from the wiki or check youtube.

 

[retep]

Some of badmephisto's algs are very bad. Pick your own from the wiki or check youtube.

Ya, I generally copy his algs as for the most part they are good, but if there is one I don't like or w/e I will branch out and look for another (like on the wiki). I did this with his N perms and am thinking of using a different J(a) perm.

 

[Eleredo]

Thanks for the replies everyone! I get all my algorithms from the OLL and PLL wiki page on the Speedsolving wiki. I try out some algorithms and then learn the one which suits me best.

Ya, I generally copy his algs as for the most part they are good, but if there is one I don't like or w/e I will branch out and look for another (like on the wiki). I did this with his N perms and am thinking of using a different J(a) perm.

Just learned J(a) today.
I learned R U' L' U R' U2 L U' L' U2 L, I think it's awesome.

 

[aznanimedude]

when i was learning PLL, i would end up doing them 2 at a time, since most of them were mirrored anyway, so when i learned one, i'd try then to mirror it for the opposite side. other than that i was more or less the same as you i'd focus on one a day, and each day i'd make sure i remembered the one from before.

i was doing this for OLL too, have about 1/2 of them down, then i started picking up ZZ and i haven't really made a serious attempt to learn the rest of my OLLs :< (felt my time is much better spent learning COLL), i might as well go back and learn the rest, just for kicks