[Help Thread] Roux Discussion and Help

[florianPjde]

Hi everyone! I've started learning Roux yesterday, and I've got pretty much all of the algorithms written down (only for 2 look CMLL and EO for now), but I've been wondering about something.

I've found many websites with lots of different algorithms for CMLL and that's fine, but for the L case there seems to be 2 different subcases, and I mostly only find one of the 2 in any one website. What I mean is if the yellow corners form an antislash (\) on the top face, I've encountered 2 ways the other yellow corners could be oriented, one where the yellow sticker of the ULF corner is on the left face, and one where the yellow sticker is on the front face. But typically websites only display algorithms for the former subcase, Kian Mansour or Gilles Roux for example only have that, and no algorithm for the latter case.

I've found algorithms for both cases for the orientation part of the 2 look CMLL, but is there something I'm missing there that would explain why Kian for example doesn't have one subcase?

Here are images to show what I mean in a more visual way (taken from here):

Y on front face - Y on left face

Thanks in advance for your answers!

 

[shadowslice e]

Hi @florianPjde! For these two cases, set up your first case, then do a U2 or vice versa

 

[florianPjde]

Hi @florianPjde! For these two cases, set up your first case, then do a U2 or vice versa

Oh god this was so obvious, I don't know how I missed it, now I'm ashamed ^^ Thanks for the quick answer and sorry for the dumb question...

 

[Potato Kuber]

I need some help for roux, for those who are good at roux can you tell me ways to get more efficient?
I mostly need help with look ahead but I also need help with my cmlls. I find recognising cmlls hard. I mostly find L cmlls hard to remember. Thanks!

 

[ImmolatedMarmoset]

Hi! I’ve been using roux for around 1.5 months now, and went from a 50 second global average to a 22 second one. I am proud of my improvement, and I am attempting to get sub-20 now. I don’t know full CMLL, and I am currently starting to learn it. However, I know my real problem is with lookahead. I am learning how to track pieces for first block, and my first block is usually pretty good. However, my second block sucks. Can anyone point me in the right direction in terms of finding resources to practice lookahead in that manner? (Note: my LSE is pretty good.)

Edit:
Splits:
3-5 sec FB 4-7 SB 3.5 CMLL 6-7.5 LSE

 

[TimAllan]

Hello, could someone help breakdown the three methods discussed in an intermediate first block building tutorial by Alex Lau:

Intermediate first block building

Thanks

 

[ImmolatedMarmoset]

1. DL edge plus 2 f2l pairs
2. DL edge-center pair plus an edge-corner pair, not in the manner of f2l (commonly referred to as your “first square”)
3. corner-edge corner pair (1x1x3) and then adding both edges.

 

[Justintime2cube]

Hey everyone, I mained roux about six months ago, and I’m still having problems with block building inefficiency, I average a accumulative 20 - 26 moves for first and second blocks (I know, it’s sad...), I average anywhere between ~20-~22 seconds. Here are a couple blockbuilding examples I just did.
R2 B U2 F' L2 R2 B' R2 F' D2 F U L' F R B2 L2 D2 F' U' F'

Spoiler

x’ y U’ L D’ R d M’ U2 R’ U R
notice how awkward that f2l pair matchup was.
U2 l’ U2 M U’ l2 (I go brain dead for a sec here) U2 l U’ l’ d M’ U’ M
Not my most proud moment...

L' R2 F U2 F' L2 U2 B U2 F2 U2 F D2 U' B D2 L' R' F L' R

Spoiler

y z D l U2 l2 B’ M2’ R’ U R U’ S R’ U2 R S’ y’ U M’ U’ M
I didn’t know any way around those weird S moves

Please feel free to criticize me on those, and if any of you have any tips, that’d be much appreciated.
Thanks a bunch

 

[Deleted member 36445]

I'm not a blockbuilding expert myself but this resources help a ton

https://cubegrass.appspot.com/block_trainer/

https://sites.google.com/view/kianroux/second-block

 

[CLL Smooth]

Hey everyone, I mained roux about six months ago, and I’m still having problems with block building inefficiency, I average a accumulative 20 - 26 moves for first and second blocks (I know, it’s sad...), I average anywhere between ~20-~22 seconds. Here are a couple blockbuilding examples I just did.
R2 B U2 F' L2 R2 B' R2 F' D2 F U L' F R B2 L2 D2 F' U' F'

Spoiler

x’ y U’ L D’ R d M’ U2 R’ U R
notice how awkward that f2l pair matchup was.
U2 l’ U2 M U’ l2 (I go brain dead for a sec here) U2 l U’ l’ d M’ U’ M
Not my most proud moment...

L' R2 F U2 F' L2 U2 B U2 F2 U2 F D2 U' B D2 L' R' F L' R

Spoiler

y z D l U2 l2 B’ M2’ R’ U R U’ S R’ U2 R S’ y’ U M’ U’ M
I didn’t know any way around those weird S moves

Please feel free to criticize me on those, and if any of you have any tips, that’d be much appreciated.
Thanks a bunch

I have a really hard time following your solutions. I don’t main with Roux but maybe you can get something from my solutions.
1. x’ y’ U R u’ F U r’ U r’ F2
2. y2 x’ F U’ R u2 U2 R’ r2’ F

 

[ImmolatedMarmoset]

Hey everyone, I mained roux about six months ago, and I’m still having problems with block building inefficiency, I average a accumulative 20 - 26 moves for first and second blocks (I know, it’s sad...), I average anywhere between ~20-~22 seconds. Here are a couple blockbuilding examples I just did.
R2 B U2 F' L2 R2 B' R2 F' D2 F U L' F R B2 L2 D2 F' U' F'

Spoiler

x’ y U’ L D’ R d M’ U2 R’ U R
notice how awkward that f2l pair matchup was.
U2 l’ U2 M U’ l2 (I go brain dead for a sec here) U2 l U’ l’ d M’ U’ M
Not my most proud moment...

L' R2 F U2 F' L2 U2 B U2 F2 U2 F D2 U' B D2 L' R' F L' R

Spoiler

y z D l U2 l2 B’ M2’ R’ U R U’ S R’ U2 R S’ y’ U M’ U’ M
I didn’t know any way around those weird S moves

Please feel free to criticize me on those, and if any of you have any tips, that’d be much appreciated.
Thanks a bunch

Honestly, I’m only a bit faster than you (18-20), but I hope I can provide some help.

1. z2 x’ B D’//square F2 U r2 F’//pair and insert U r2 U r’ U2 R2//second square U’ M2 U2 R’ U R//pair+ insert

18 STM, and it’s relatively ergonomic. I may not have done this in a speed solve, but I did find this linearly.

2. x’ z2 U L U’ B// square r U F2 R’//square U’ M’ U2 M r’ U’ r//second block finish R’ F R M U2 M’ l’ U’ l//finish

Not as good. However, I decided to speed solve this (as opposed to analyse the scramble and write moves down) and I got this:
2. y z2 R’ U F’ B’ U’ R’ U’ U R2 U2 B2//first block U’ R2 M U M’ r U R’ M U’ M’ U2 r’ U’ R//second block//CMLL skip lol and then LSE. 13.81 for the whole thing!

 

[Justintime2cube]

Alright, thanks! I’ve learned a way to do two cases that I always had a hard time with, and now have a better understanding of different ways to build blocks and what to look for.

 

[superparadel]

I seem to be running into a problem where when i get to LSE, specifically after i solve the UL and UR edges, i find a case where it is not dots, bars, cycles, or anything else that is usually explained in tutorials. It seems to be random placement of these last 4 edges with no apparent pattern. Does anyone know how to solve this because i have tried many different things and i cant seem to solve it.

 

[OreKehStrah]

You’ll need to post some pictures of the different angles

 

[efattah]

It sounds like you haven't oriented your edges properly in the first place. If the edges are oriented the last 4 edges will always be one of those cases. Or, you oriented the edges but then broke the orientation when solving UL and UR.
You are limited to specific movesets to solve UL and UR once edges are oriented. It is very confusing at first.

 

[Yadhuraj]

I am starting to learn roux im already sub 30 at Cfop.
1. Which is the best tutorial to learn v roux?
2.How long it will take to learn roux??
3.How long for sub 20.If i did 100 solves per day??
4. Should i learn full CMLL to get to sub 20?

 

[CarterK]

1. Kian
2. Depends
3. Depends
4. Depends

But for real

It will take as long as it takes, it's gonna vary between people

People improve at different rates. FYI just doing solves is not the best way to improve

I mean full CMLL is faster than 2 look obviously. You absolutely don't need it for sub 20, although it can help. IMO getting better blocks is more important.

 

[OreKehStrah]

I am starting to learn roux im already sub 30 at Cfop.
1. Which is the best tutorial to learn v roux?
2.How long it will take to learn roux??
3.How long for sub 20.If i did 100 solves per day??
4. Should i learn full CMLL to get to sub 20?

Again Kian Mansour makes the best Roux tutorials.
As for sub-20 that’s gonna be based on your block efficiency and being decent enough at CMLL and LSE.
Don’t worry about the quantity of solves. The biggest thing with Roux I’ve found is your block efficiency. You have to practice your blocks the most. You can have 2 tips and average sub 20 if you’re efficient.
As far as CMLL goes, Kian can sub 10 with 2 look CMLL so that just goes to show it’s not gonna be the big factor if you’re sub 20 or not. I would recommend learning the cases that are easy for recognize first as you go.
Go ahead and take the plunge into Eoux. I wish I had when I had started lol. But I’m learning ZBLL which is the main reason I’m not gonna switch.

 

[OneCacoethes]

I am also sub 30 cfop looking to switch to roux. I was looking at the roux wiki page and it suggests that ignoring centers while solving blocks might be a good idea. Is this really practical? If it is a good idea, I want to learn it now as I am just starting, because it seems like it would be hard to switch to doing that once I am confident with roux.
The wiki page also talks solving two blocks that don't match. How much will being able to create non matching blocks help getting fast times? And would it be a good idea to just do two possibilities for the second block instead of four. It seems like that could make last layer recognition a lot easier.

 

[Juqe]

I am also sub 30 cfop looking to switch to roux. I was looking at the roux wiki page and it suggests that ignoring centers while solving blocks might be a good idea. Is this really practical? If it is a good idea, I want to learn it now as I am just starting, because it seems like it would be hard to switch to doing that once I am confident with roux.
The wiki page also talks solving two blocks that don't match. How much will being able to create non matching blocks help getting fast times? And would it be a good idea to just do two possibilities for the second block instead of four. It seems like that could make last layer recognition a lot easier.

Non matching centers for FB/SB is a great idea because it gives room to better FB's, which can easily be fixed by u M' u'/u' M' U etc. Still if you are sub 30 and from CFOP currently you should be focusing on general blockbuilding (I assume you mostly do F2L FB).

Tbh I guess no one uses non matching blocks, first because of horrible CMLL recog, second LSE execution is even harder, third it's easier do place a FR/BR edge as (pseudo) DR, solve the (real) DR+Corner and fix it with R/R' to get a SB Square.

But don't do too much fancy stuff in the beginning. Get used too the basics good and meanwhile experiment with fancy stuff a little bit.