narusite

Member
Hi, (not-so) quick questions for the second block in roux.
I'm aware of things like "SB last slot" and "Kian SB last slot"
But I'm not very advanced, I don't plan to be sub 10. I'm currently between 30 and 40, with occasional solves below or above.

I've seen/heard things like "orient edges" or "well oriented edge" for the second block.
I thought that it meant that you can insert them with R/U only, that is if the R face is red, a well-oriented edge is one that is not red on U face.
For instance, when doing RUR' (RU'R') on a solved cube, the UF (UB) edge is well oriented be cause if you do RU'R' (RUR') you can insert it.
I am correct?

I mostly use intuitive SB (that is I haven't (and don't plan to) learn the algs on the previous links), and try to orient the edge w/r to the matching corner on the U face.
For instance, with RU'R' U2, I'll tend to do M' U2 Rw U Rw': I flip the edge and not the corner.
Should I try to break that habit and orient the edge if possible?

Last question: when there is a pair already done (usually with DR) I "pannick" a little bit trying to not break the pair inserting the first edge and then the pair.
For instance (without thinking of the RF pair) with R2URU'Rw'U'RU, I'll do something like store the first pair in the R face, then flip the edge, and insert the pair: U'R'UM'URUR2U'R2. It always seems a little bit far-fetched when reasoning like that. Do you have some tips?

Also, if you have some tips you'd like to share, some realisations like:
if a corner is in place, place the edge on the D face, then R U (or U2 depending on the orientation and position of the edge) M' (or M2) U'R.
This works better for me than quicker things like RU'M'UR'. I'll instead do U Rw U M2 U' R (well, it's not that longer in this case, but you get the idea)

Or a beginner tip for Step 4b - Finish L/R-sides I "discovered" not so early…
when one edge is on D and the other is on U between two corners of the R or L face, you can save a few moves (cancelation) by not putting both edges on the D face.
put them diagonnally on the M slice and move one of the edge betwen the two corners of the opposite face and then finish normally with U2 M/M'.
Let's say that L is orange and R is red, that you have red on bottom and orange on top.
- if orange is between the two red corners, you put the red edge on the U face between the two orange corners example
- if orange is between the two orange corners, you put the orange edge between the two red corners example

Thanks for reading if you've made this far. You all have been of a great help with your posts.

GuRoux

Member
Usually the definition of oriented for edges is if you can solve it using only R, U, L and D moves. On average, solving pairs with oriented edges are only a little bit faster than the unoriented case. It takes a lot of skill to really take advantage of these differences. At the beginner level, it won't help much to obsess over influencing edge orientation. Just try to do the solutions that are faster to do. For the "panic" case, it depends. The case you showed is difficult to solve the square. I would just solve DR and the corner with U' R2 and work on the other pair.

notme

Member
Why is the color orientation in alg cubing net different than what I learned already? I tried the roux "example solve " game and am completely thrown off by the color change.
Maybe I could start with xyz moves to orient to the "standard" way.
Is this about being color neutral?

porkynator

Member
Why is the color orientation in alg cubing net different than what I learned already? I tried the roux "example solve " game and am completely thrown off by the color change.
Maybe I could start with xyz moves to orient to the "standard" way.
Is this about being color neutral?
alg.cubing.net uses white on top and green on front, which is the standard orientation.

Member
alg.cubing.net uses white on top and green on front, which is the standard *WCA scrambling* orientation.
FTFY

notme

Member
Oh great, And the Giiker cube program shows blue for front instead of green. Gahhh!
FTFY? What's that mean?

notme

Member
Ok, didn't search, sorry 'bout that!
Matt11111 said: Ftfy=fixed it for yo

Etotheipi

Member
I average around high 20s, and SB takes almost twice as long as FB, whats the best way to improve SB efficiency?

Sue Doenim

Member
I average around high 20s, and SB takes almost twice as long as FB, whats the best way to improve SB efficiency?
My advice would be to check algsheets (I know that at least Kian has one specifically for SB), watch example solves, and do slow solves for practice. There's a block trainer for SB here that has full SB, square, and pair, to maybe check that out.

narusite

Member
So, I've just done some solves with splits on cstimer, and I didn't think that I had that much of a problem with SB:

No.​
Time​
FB​
SB​
2-look CMLL​
LSE​
1​

35.59​

4.43​

15.59​

5.63​

9.92​

2​

45.38​

7.45​

17.17​

8.73​

12.01​

3​

48.70​

5.02​

18.95​

7.15​

17.56​

4​

36.95​

7.37​

14.35​

7.10​

8.12​

5​

46.05​

8.73​

19.59​

8.07​

9.65​

6​

32.66​

4.55​

6.49​

10.88​

10.72​

7​

32.25​

7.57​

9.06​

7.29​

8.31​

8​

36.48​

9.48​

12.26​

4.62​

10.11​

9​

40.08​

6.23​

12.62​

9.46​

11.75​

10​

37.44​

8.13​

12.52​

5.96​

10.81​

avg

39.16

6.90

13.86

7.49

10.90
I though that my 2look CMLL were slowing me, but from this session, it's clear that it can wait. (I know I'll have to improve my LSE too).

I think I'll have to solve SB in a more algorithmic way. I tend to "panic" once FB is done, and some time I don't even remember what RD should be… So I'll try to track RD more from now on.

The two sub-10 SB were when a pair was already made + RD was easily spotted -> 1st square was easy and I was more relaxed for the last pair.
I think I'll have to do more last pair of second block too. When I train, I usually can think of a short solution and can do it blindfolded. But during a solve, I don't think I am that efficient… Again, I have problem finding the pieces if they are not right in front of me.

So if you have any tips to share.

ImmolatedMarmoset

Member
So, I've just done some solves with splits on cstimer, and I didn't think that I had that much of a problem with SB:

No.​

Time​

FB​

SB​

2-look CMLL​

LSE​

1​

35.59​

4.43​

15.59​

5.63​

9.92​

2​

45.38​

7.45​

17.17​

8.73​

12.01​

3​

48.70​

5.02​

18.95​

7.15​

17.56​

4​

36.95​

7.37​

14.35​

7.10​

8.12​

5​

46.05​

8.73​

19.59​

8.07​

9.65​

6​

32.66​

4.55​

6.49​

10.88​

10.72​

7​

32.25​

7.57​

9.06​

7.29​

8.31​

8​

36.48​

9.48​

12.26​

4.62​

10.11​

9​

40.08​

6.23​

12.62​

9.46​

11.75​

10​

37.44​

8.13​

12.52​

5.96​

10.81​

avg

39.16

6.90

13.86

7.49

10.90

I though that my 2look CMLL were slowing me, but from this session, it's clear that it can wait. (I know I'll have to improve my LSE too).

I think I'll have to solve SB in a more algorithmic way. I tend to "panic" once FB is done, and some time I don't even remember what RD should be… So I'll try to track RD more from now on.

The two sub-10 SB were when a pair was already made + RD was easily spotted -> 1st square was easy and I was more relaxed for the last pair.
I think I'll have to do more last pair of second block too. When I train, I usually can think of a short solution and can do it blindfolded. But during a solve, I don't think I am that efficient… Again, I have problem finding the pieces if they are not right in front of me.

So if you have any tips to share.
Why don’t you, instead of trying to track RD (I avg 16 and I don’t always do that) just, at the beginning of the solve make sure you know what edge you’re looking for so you can look for it without pausing to think about what you need to look for.

ProStar

Member
So I've been learning about roux(I use CFOP currently), and I was wondering what should I do to improve? I assume it will have to do with First Two Blocks, as I'm basically just doing F2L, but I don't know what exactly I should be doing.

Also, I did a roux solve and after CMLL all I had to do was Bars(M2 U2 M2 U2) to solve it. Is there a name for skipping EO and L/R edges? and if so, how unlikely is it?

Thanks!

ImmolatedMarmoset

Member
So I've been learning about roux(I use CFOP currently), and I was wondering what should I do to improve? I assume it will have to do with First Two Blocks, as I'm basically just doing F2L, but I don't know what exactly I should be doing.

Also, I did a roux solve and after CMLL all I had to do was Bars(M2 U2 M2 U2) to solve it. Is there a name for skipping EO and L/R edges? and if so, how unlikely is it?

Thanks!
yup! it’s called EOLR (figures) and people like Kian and Sean know it well. (algset) I don’t know what the probability was, but that’s pretty rare. probs one in like 200 or so

Pyjam

After F2B, you can influence EO during CMLL by knowing 2 algs per case in order to get 0 or 4 edges misoriented, and/or influence the position of the edges in order to get a better position after the "arrow" (that is called EOLR).

But if you're a beginner, this is really, really not your priority.

Your priority is to solve the FB at inspection and to forecast/force the position of the DR edge.
Also, you want to be x2/y neutral, for an easy FB.

Sue Doenim

Member
Also, I did a roux solve and after CMLL all I had to do was Bars(M2 U2 M2 U2) to solve it. Is there a name for skipping EO and L/R edges? and if so, how unlikely is it?
Yeah, that would just be called an EOLR skip. There's a 1/960 or 0.104166666% chance, so it's not very common.

ThatGuy

Member
So I've been learning about roux(I use CFOP currently), and I was wondering what should I do to improve? I assume it will have to do with First Two Blocks, as I'm basically just doing F2L, but I don't know what exactly I should be doing.

Also, I did a roux solve and after CMLL all I had to do was Bars(M2 U2 M2 U2) to solve it. Is there a name for skipping EO and L/R edges? and if so, how unlikely is it?

Thanks!
I also recently started seriously learning Roux and I found that watching example solves was helpful. As you've noted, it can be hard to break out of an F2L mindset, so it's important to see blockbuilding techniques.

ari(a cuber)

Member
any tips for getting faster at roux? I currently average about 45 seconds. especially the second block

C

Cubinwitdapizza

Guest
For the second block, remember that you can use the M slice to pair edges with corners and instead of rotating to put a pair in, you can do Rw U Rw’ as an insert.