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Tom Joad

Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2016
Messages
134
I need some help getting sub 15. I've been practicing look ahead and it has improved but nothing really happened. I'm pretty sure it is because of full OLL which i learnt just last week.
I average 16sec:
cross - 1.5
f2l - 6.5
LL - 7

Should I work on improving my last layer or continue with f2l? And how'd I go about improving my last layer?
My best average of 5 is 16.6 so perhaps my ruminations are pertinent.

I have spent the last year focusing on my last layer and every oll and pll is now sub-2, most are a lot closer to one second. I’m now ready to dive in to a year focusing on f2l. It sounds like you have done things the other way round, like most people do.

So, I would say, it is definitely last layer you should now focus on. You could get that down to four seconds, to bring your average down to 12 before thinking about what to do next.

Learning full oll, and learning them all well, is one of the least attractive features of speedcubing for many solvers because the ratio of time committed to reward is one of the least favourable. Consequently, many cubers postpone this indefinitely. Many cubers then rationalise this retrospectively such that “I’m sub-something without full oll so there’s no point in learning it” has become a memetic cliche.

Having taught it to yourself, this is just the beginning of a long journey. Reaching seamless recognition and execution is a long and winding road. I would also recommend knowing a good ten to twenty of them from two angles.

Furthermore, you will also want to learn two-sided pll recognition (if you haven’t yet) and also learn to auf-pll-auf as one algorithm. The crucial part here is arguably the final auf, which you should recognise before starting pll. Again, maybe you have already done this but I find that it doesn’t get much press and that some videos on youtube (by great teachers) represent some of their worst efforts.

And perhaps you already know all of that and it’s just practice and execution required. Given your f2l times, you should be able to get the last layer down to four seconds, no problem.

Good luck, enjoy and take my words lightly as I am nowhere near your f2l standard!
 

Aerma

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I need some help getting sub 15. I've been practicing look ahead and it has improved but nothing really happened. I'm pretty sure it is because of full OLL which i learnt just last week.
I average 16sec:
cross - 1.5
f2l - 6.5
LL - 7

Should I work on improving my last layer or continue with f2l? And how'd I go about improving my last layer?
Your Cross/F2L seem pretty good for your level, but your last layer is a bit slow. Learn full OLL and PLL if you haven't already and drill last layer. Now may be the time to learn 2-sided PLL recognition! It could also be useful to learn some of the easier last-layer subset algs, like some easy COLL, VHLS, and Winter Variation cases. Make sure your algs for OLL/PLL and everything else are good ones!
 

KJre

Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2018
Messages
11
Your Cross/F2L seem pretty good for your level, but your last layer is a bit slow. Learn full OLL and PLL if you haven't already and drill last layer. Now may be the time to learn 2-sided PLL recognition! It could also be useful to learn some of the easier last-layer subset algs, like some easy COLL, VHLS, and Winter Variation cases. Make sure your algs for OLL/PLL and everything else are good ones!
How’d I go about learnings 2 side pll recognitions? Should I just try to find figure out each alg or watch and memorise each case?
 

Tom Joad

Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2016
Messages
134
Critical appraisal of guides like this one:

Two algorithms (take for example Aa and Ga) are paired together (due to a similarity) but then called a non-unique case (due to a difference)

But we just paired them up ourselves arbitrarily using a similarity of our choice!

Long-term problem of using this method:

When the solver thinks he has mastered the guide he will still reach pll and then:

a) recognise (arbitrarily chosen) similarity
b) think “it’s Aa or Ga”
c) recognise which one it is
d) execute algorithm

By definition, this will still incorporate a pause.

Solution:

Mmmmm... I’m not sure. I’ve been learning two sided pll for a while and still pause on a handful of cases, possibly for the reason above. Some of the cases are so similar, it seems impossible to not pair them up with similar ones. But ideally, to preclude this, you would want a way of recognising the case, which didn’t first rely on narrowing it down to one of two cases...

Possible thinking of how this may be resolved:

Let’s take the Aa case, which in the guide above is paired with Ga. Now let’s not pair these up. Let’s give Aa a description. Let’s call it “four-checker”. Alas, there are two “four-checker” patterns, Aa and Ab, one with the four-checker on the left and one with it on the right, so we haven’t solved the problem.

Well, we have kind of solved it. You need never think of G perms when you see a four-checker pattern. You know it’s an A perm, so that’s a better pairing system.

Also, if you’re using optimum plls for your A perms, then one of these four checker patterns will be ready to do the pll algorithm immediately, whilst the other will need a U2 first. This is a crucial, yet understated point: what matters is which pll each case is AND WHAT AUF YOU NEED TO DO FIRST, because eventually you will want to integrate these into one fingertrick.

So we have (on this occasion) solved the problem and made two unique cases:

“Four checker left” for U2 Aa perm (or whatever)
“Four checker right” for no-auf Ab perm (or whatever)

Now this is of course just 2 of your 84 cases. To efficiently make the best guide, just complete the rest of a 4 by 21 table with the perms listed down the rows, the pre-auf needed at the top and the succinct description in the boxes.

Final thought:

If you use a guide which groups together different cases to accentuate (initial) learning, this will ultimately make pauses harder to eliminate as you become a master.

I’m just ranting and ruminating. Peace out y’all.


How’d I go about learnings 2 side pll recognitions? Should I just try to find figure out each alg or watch and memorise each case?
 

xyzzy

Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2015
Messages
1,697
What are some easier to remember V perms?
I use the one from Cubeskills but I can't memorize it.
R' U R U' x' U (R U2 R' U' R U' R') U2 R U R' U'

The bracketed part is just an Antisune (a standard OLL alg), which you should already know. Or maybe:
R U2 R' U2 L' U R U' L U' L' U R' U' L

For this one, try tracking how F2L pairs move around as you execute the alg.

(Or if you already know Y perm, you can even do M' U2 M (Y perm) M' U2 M, but that's really slow.)
 

Tom Joad

Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2016
Messages
134
Hi all, I’m just making my f2l cases with white in the D layer a bit faster. Until now, I just take it out and see which case I then have. So...

F2L 37 (corner in place and correctly orientated, edge in place but incorrectly orientated)

On algdb.net the most popular method says:

R2 U2 F R2 F' U2 R' U R'

Do people really use this? If so, how do I fingertrick it? If not, what do they use instead?

Thanks
 

Thom S.

Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2017
Messages
458
Hi all, I’m just making my f2l cases with white in the D layer a bit faster. Until now, I just take it out and see which case I then have. So...

F2L 37 (corner in place and correctly orientated, edge in place but incorrectly orientated)

On algdb.net the most popular method says:

R2 U2 F R2 F' U2 R' U R'

Do people really use this? If so, how do I fingertrick it? If not, what do they use instead?

Thanks
I personally use this. Op uses this.
OPs fingertricks.
My way is regripless.
Thumb on UR. R2' U2'. F with pointer finger. R2. F' with Ring finger. U2' R' U R'

The other popular ones I know of are
R U' R' B' R' U' R2 U R' B
R r U R' U' r' U2 R U R U' R2

I believe a <RUS> one exists but I can't find it

Edit
The one I meant
 
Last edited:

Tom Joad

Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2016
Messages
134
I personally use this. Op uses this.
OPs fingertricks.
My way is regripless.
Thumb on UR. R2' U2'. F with pointer finger. R2. F' with Ring finger. U2' R' U R'

The other popular ones I know of are
R U' R' B' R' U' R2 U R' B
R r U R' U' r' U2 R U R U' R2

I believe a <RUS> one exists but I can't find it

Edit
The one I meant
Thanks, that looks insane, I’ll get busy practicing that!
 

Tom Joad

Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2016
Messages
134
I mean, if you want I could PM you a video
Thanks for that Adventures in Cubing link. A great starting point for my f2l improvement plans!

Also, I’m going with the TellerWest one for f2l37. I’m getting the hang of it...
 

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